Kristi McVee [00:00:00]:
The online world can offer children such relief. You know, online gaming can give kids a community that they might not have in real life. So we just need to balance that out with these are the qualities that we want, these are the qualities we don't want. This is how we handle things if they're not going well. Empower our children to set some boundaries for themselves and for their friendships so that they know that when someone goes past that boundary, you know that they've got choices and that that's not okay. And that it's okay to say, look, I don't like that.
Sharon Collon [00:00:29]:
Welcome to the ADHD Family welcome back to this podcast. I'm your host Sharon Collin, an award winning credentialed ADHD coach and consultant and mama and wife to a very ADHD family. I am seriously obsessed with making life easier for people with ADHD and those that support them. My business, the Functional Family, provides life changing support and strategies for adhd. I particularly love anything that saves time, decreases conflict and creates space for fun. Do you want a life with your beautiful family that is more functional, fun and full of joy? Let's explore together the wonderful and sometimes wacky world of family life with ADHD in the mix. Welcome to the ADHD Families Podcast. I'm your host Sharon Collin, an ADHD coach, consultant and parenting expert and I am so happy you are here today.
Sharon Collon [00:01:28]:
We are chatting about online safety and ADHD. Now I met Christie McVie a little while ago and she blew me away. She's actually come inside the ADHD family's membership and supported us to and empowered us to be able to navigate online safety for our gorgeous kids. We know that kids with ADHD are at greater risk of being groomed online at being sex started I didn't even know what that term was before her workshop, so I've got her on the podcast today to really break that down for us. And although this may be a triggering topic for some of our listeners, it is an important one. We need to be, you know, upskill on this issue now. Christy McVeigh is an ex West Australian detective and specialist child interviewer and the author of the brilliant Operation Kids Safe. Check that one out on Amazon or Audible guys.
Sharon Collon [00:02:28]:
She's a Detective. It's a Detective's guide to Child Abuse Prevention. Christie hosts the CAPE Podcast and Child Abuse Prevention and Education Podcast as well as presents about child sexual abuse awareness and online child exploitation to schools, parents and communities. She also has lived experience of ADHD and she is an absolutely gorgeous human. I can't wait for you to listen to this episode. We talk about, you know, what we should be on the lookout for, what platforms are the most dangerous for our kids, how to empower our kids to make good choices online and what we should do, very importantly, when things go wrong. Let's get to it. Welcome, Christy.
Sharon Collon [00:03:17]:
I am so excited for our chat today.
Kristi McVee [00:03:20]:
Yeah, I am too. It's been a long time coming.
Sharon Collon [00:03:24]:
I know, I know. Now you came in to the ADHD Families membership and presented for us on online safety and I've got to say I was blown away. So I am super excited to have this chat with you and share this with our beautiful listeners. But before I get too excited, can you tell me a little bit about, or tell our listeners a little bit about what you do and why you do it?
Kristi McVee [00:03:47]:
Okay. Well, what I do is I teach on online safety and abuse awareness and why I do that is because I, for what, for whatever reason, became a police officer when my daughter was 2 years old. It's actually a funny story, but I just saw an ad in a paper and thought I could do that. And the funny part about that is I'm only five foot one, just five foot one, I'm not very tall. Never thought about becoming a police officer. And then all of a sudden I was this mum who was looking at this ad and I thought I can do that and set my mind to it. Became a sworn in police officer just before my daughter turned 2. And when I became a police officer, I had my blinkers way blown off.
Kristi McVee [00:04:31]:
I didn't realise what the world really looks like out there. I was quite naive, I thought, had rose coloured glasses. And during that time in the police, I became a specialist child interviewer when my daughter was three. So in the first year I put my hand up to interview children who had been abused. And predominantly most of the abuse that I was, most of the cases that I was interviewing kids on was for child sexual abuse. And then I did that for the nine years I was in the police or 10 years I was in the police. And then I became a detective and started investigating child sexual abuse and abuse cases. That's where I saw, you know, when I first started in the police in 2010, wasn't really seeing what we see now with our kids being groomed and abused online.
Kristi McVee [00:05:19]:
But by the end of my career in 2020, it was a large portion of what I was investigating or sadly what I was having to tell parents we couldn't do anything about. And when I left the police in 2020, I did leave the Police because for personal reasons, I had severe PTSD from obviously 10 years of talking to young people and children about, you know, really horrendous cases. And so I did have ptsd. But over the last four and a bit years, I used what I knew. I just kept thinking when I left the police, you know, if parents knew what I knew, they would do things differently. And so I wrote a book and that's been released actually, two years last month. I can't believe it's been two years. It's just gone so fast.
Kristi McVee [00:06:05]:
And when I released that book, it's called Operation Kids Safe A Detective's Guide to Child Abuse Prevention. And it's all about what I learned in the police. You know, it's. For some parents, it's a very. If you've never been around or never really considered what the world looks like in the realm of child sexual abuse and online abuse, it's probably a real eye opener. But for the other parents who are aware of what's out there, it's just a confirmation of why we need to be on top of this stuff and why we need to know what to look out for and what red flags and warning signs to keep an eye on. And then in the last two years since that's been released, I went, well, I've written a book. What do I do now? And then I started presenting.
Kristi McVee [00:06:49]:
Well, I've been presenting at schools about online safety, parent workshops, to corporate and government organizations about online safety and abuse awareness, and I have a TikTok and Instagram that has just gone gangbusters lately. And people are wanting to know more about this to protect their kids. And I couldn't be happier about it. Sadly, you know, my. I'm in a niche position with my experience and I would. I never wished that this would be my career and this would be my job, but I'm grateful that people are listening and finally paying attention because it felt like at one stage there that, you know, our kids are so vulnerable and we need to stand up and realize that we are the only thing in between them and harm. So, yeah.
Sharon Collon [00:07:37]:
Oh, I love your story. And I can't. I can honestly say that your masterclass that you did for us, I walked away with my jaw on the floor because it was so eye opening for me because the things that I was worried about weren't the right things. And I'm going to delve into this a little bit. But before that, we know that our kids with ADHD are more at risk for these kind of, you know, crimes. And for grooming and those sorts of things. So can you tell our listeners what are some of the unique challenges that kids with ADHD face in relation to online safety?
Kristi McVee [00:08:17]:
Yeah, well, I can speak from experience because both my daughter and my husband have ADHD and they're both being diagnosed with autism. So my husband, for instance, we grew up in a much different era. We didn't have phones in the Internet. But I think if he was a teenager now, he would be a nightmare. He was such a naughty kid and a naughty teenager. I came along when he was 15. He was so naughty. And again, like that lack of impulse control, right? Young people, and even my daughter struggles with it sometimes.
Kristi McVee [00:08:50]:
She's much more aware of it, but she struggles with lack of impulse control, which means they blurt things out, they say things that they don't mean. They get caught up in the moment with, you know, when there's either violence or, you know, some bullying going on. So our young people, especially young people with adhd, they don't think through the consequences and the response, you know, they just don't think through the whole thing. So they get caught up with bullying, you know, potentially sharing something they shouldn't share, you know, watching things that they shouldn't watch, hyper fixating on things that aren't true. You know, it's really important, I think, from as, from my perspective with my own daughter and you know, is to challenge, challenge them in there and get them to try and think through things. So for instance, with my daughter, you know, she sometimes comes to me and goes, oh, a random fact, like this random thing that she learned on TikTok, right? And I'll be like, where did you hear that from? And she won't. She does, because I can question where she's hearing her getting these sources from. She's always like, I just saw it.
Kristi McVee [00:09:57]:
And I'm like, so tick tock. And she's like, yes. And I, and you know, I challenge her and I say, have you had a further look to see if that's actually real? Because what we see on the Internet is not always real. It's so easy to fake things on the Internet and to lie on the Internet and to be someone that. Or pretend to be something that's not real. So I always challenge her to go and fact check her stuff and if she's not willing to do it, I'll do it with her. Like, hey, let's quickly have a look at this. Is this actually real? Because.
Kristi McVee [00:10:29]:
And not to just go to the first resource on the, on the first page of Google is to actually see, you know, get multiple. And the other thing that I think with young people and children with ADHD is that they struggle with friendships. And my husband especially like they struggle with friendships. So they're going to try and mask and mimic other people and sometimes they fall into the groups that are, you know, risking things and being adventurous and dangerous or being obnoxious online and that's in order to fit in, which makes them actually stand out because it's not who they truly are and authentically are. So it's really important that we also challenge, hey, what kind of qualities do we want in our friendships both in person and online? Who are these people we are talking to online? Are they people we know in real life? Are they people that we like them because they have good qualities in there? But also I think the online world can offer children such relief and such, you know, online gaming can give kids a community that they might not have in real life. So we just need to balance that out with these are the qualities that we want, these are the qualities we don't want. This is how we handle things if they're not going well, empower our children to set some boundaries for themselves and for their friendships so that they know that when someone goes past that boundary that they, you know, that they've got choices and that that's not okay and that it's okay to say, look, I don't like that Rob that so much.
Sharon Collon [00:12:10]:
So much gold in what you just said. Now thinking about online platforms and different social media platforms, in your experience, what platforms are the worst for putting our kids at risk?
Kristi McVee [00:12:24]:
Number one is Instagram. Although today Instagram has set up a new has just come out and created a new under 18s account system for any child that goes onto Instagram. I'm not sure how it's going to work and I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve right now. But Instagram's number one, the worst because this is Instagram makes it so easy for strangers and predators to contact kids that go straight into their DMs and you know, it's basically an easy gateway for predators. The next one, Snapchat, Discord's really bad as well. So you know, Discord is where our kids usually meet up to talk about, you know, and to hang out with their friends. But unfortunately Discord has so many channels on there that are really bad, really predatory. Roblox, anything that's for kids is basically a predators playground.
Kristi McVee [00:13:20]:
But we can mitigate that. We can mitigate that.
Sharon Collon [00:13:25]:
So what sort of things should we be on the lookout for? What sort of kids are on these platforms?
Kristi McVee [00:13:32]:
Well, it depends on the age. And you know, personally I have like in my mind, from my experience, you know, the first thing we need is awareness. We need to know what's out there, how they're targeting our kids, what they're doing. Then we need to have some forms of protections in place. So similar to when we, when everyone had to get pool fences, we need to have some pool fences around our Internet. So you know, if we've got, whether, whether They've got an iOS or Apple or they've got a Google or an Android device, we can set up some form of protection so that they, a, they can't spend all day on them, you know, so time restrictions. Secondly, we want to set up, you know, we want to be able to block apps and games that they can't, that they shouldn't be on. For instance, you know, if we don't set up restrictions so they can't get on adult websites, then it's going to come across their platform, it's going to come across.
Kristi McVee [00:14:27]:
And one of the ways that a lot of young children especially get see pornography for the first time is through pop ups on free games. So setting it up so that it can't take them to a free game or like another app. Setting it up so it blocks adult websites and adult content. Well that's just a given for kids, right? We don't want them seeing it, they shouldn't be seeing it. So you know, first, awareness, protection, supervision. You know, children shouldn't be under the age of 13, shouldn't be using their devices on their own. We should be supervising them and they should be sitting in a room that, where everyone is, you know, in a communal area of the home when they get to a teenager. Yes, they can maybe have them in their bedroom but no closed doors and no bathrooms because sadly and unfortunately where most predators are going to prey on your children is when at night when they're in their bedroom on their own whilst no one's looking or in a bathroom where there's a locked door.
Kristi McVee [00:15:30]:
So children shouldn't have their devices in their bedrooms where for as long as possible. So yeah, so supervision and oversight when they get to an age where you're comfortable that they are mature enough and acting. Well, you know, the other thing is that we have to have a license to drive a car. How about we put some training wheels on the device usage and make it so that they have to earn certain rights, they have to earn certain things. So that. Because one of the things that I tell parents in my parent workshops is that if you're the one supplying the phone, you've given it to them, then you're the owner of that phone or that device, you own it. They don't own it, they get to use it and borrow it with conditions that they use it respectfully and that they're doing the right thing on it. And so.
Kristi McVee [00:16:21]:
And you should always have access to that. Because from my perspective, a lot of parents go, but what about their privacy? Well, sadly, when you're my kid, you don't get privacy on your device until you're an adult and you're paying the bill. Because I need to know what's happening and there's things that will happen behind my closed doors that all behind, you know, once it's in a device, it's a closed door, isn't it? So we need to keep an eye on it and we need to make sure. So supervision then solutions and solutions is like if something happens, preparing your kids for what to do. If you know, and I talk to kids in my presentations and I talk to my own daughter, I'm like, what could kids do if someone sends you a picture of their private parts? And I was talking like that to my 7 and 8, my daughter at 7 and 8. What could you do if they're using a device that's a real reality that someone will ask them for a picture of their privates or someone will send them a picture of their private. So what could kids do if you're not asking them what they could do? Because we don't want to make it about them and it happening to them. We wanted to make it about kids in general.
Kristi McVee [00:17:30]:
And you know, what could we do if someone asks us for pictures of our privates? And with little kids you want to introduce that theme of private versus public. Well, what about private parts? And what can we show to everyone in public? And what about private parts? And we only show maybe mum and dad or we only show a doctor if they need to have a look at it. Or you know, we wear it's behind our toilet door or our bathroom door. That's when we, you know, they're our privates. No one else gets to see our privates. It's the same online and you know, making sure that our children know understand that as well. But the solutions thing is really important and the support our kids. The number one thing I would say is that most children don't Go to their parents when something happens because they're scared that their parents are going to a get upset with them and take away their device.
Kristi McVee [00:18:23]:
Number one is take away the device. Number two is they're going to be upset with them. And I get teenagers contact me after being sex started like a couple of times a week from all over the world because I talk about it on TikTok and they're asking for advice and I say, have you got a safe adult you can talk to? And they say no, because I'm scared that they're going to be upset with me. And you know, we've got young people taking their own lives because of sextortion and because of online grooming and abuse. We need to ensure that our kids know, no matter what you do, no matter what you do, I love you anyway. And also take away the behavior from the person. You're a good person. Sometimes your behavior isn't so great and sometimes we do silly things.
Kristi McVee [00:19:10]:
But that doesn't mean you're not a good person. And I love you, the person always and I will always be here for you, no matter what.
Sharon Collon [00:19:17]:
So let's delve into sextortion now because this is a new term that I suspect a lot of parents don't know what that is. Like when we think of like online safety, we think pedophiles. Right. Like protect against pedophiles. But let's. Can you explain a little bit about what sextortion is and which one is the greater risk?
Kristi McVee [00:19:36]:
Yeah. So let's. Let me just rewind back and just break it down into two things. So the first thing is online. In my experience, there's two types of online predators. There's pedophilic, which are attracted to children and they are going to spend a lot more time grooming children. They're going to create relationships with children online, et cetera, to get what they want because that gives them joy and pleasure. And the second group is the financial sextortion or financial extortion group.
Kristi McVee [00:20:08]:
They are organized crime groups in all over the world who their sole purpose is to scam money out of young people, children, adults as well. And they are targeting at the moment, but it does happen to girls. Majority of the time they're targeting 97% of the time we get reports from boys, 97% of it is boys. And I would highly like them. I would love to know the statistics on how many of those have adhd because I think that would be a huge statistic as well. But they. So what we're seeing Is sextortion is when a person uses a fake account, usually a good looking female of a similar age to the, to the teenager to pretend to be interested in them. It's very quick.
Kristi McVee [00:20:59]:
It can take two minutes between contacts. So dropping into their DMs and asking to be friends to asking for nudes. And so what the sex daughter usually does is they've got like a, obviously a gallery of photos and a gallery of videos that they use to send to the young person. And so they've already supplied the young person with a video with photos of them nude. Which means that the young person's, you know, defenses are kind of dropped because hey, she sent me photos, she wants to see me naked, why wouldn't I? Because she's already been vulnerable with me. It's kind of biohacking their defense. And then the young person sends them a nude. Usually it's a lot of teens are trying to be really careful.
Kristi McVee [00:21:45]:
They will try to not send a picture of their face, but these extorters want their face in the photos because they want to be able to extort them for money. So they'll keep harassing them until they either give them a video or a photo of them and full body. And then what happens is, is that the minute they've sent that because they've become friends, usually on Instagram or wherever they've got their friendship list, their group, you know, all of their friends on there, they then threaten to contact or send their photos and videos to their friends or family. And then that's where they ask for money. And generally what teenager, what 13 or 14 year old boy has you know, $500, $1,000, $2,000. So some teens do try and pay it, but it's just going to continue, they're going to continue to extort and it doesn't stop. And they threaten to ruin their lives. They threaten them with.
Kristi McVee [00:22:43]:
When kids say I'm just going to kill myself, they go, go and do it, no one cares. They goad them into suicide. Some of them are so vicious and malicious. I've got a young man that contacted me two months ago about sex distortion and he. And it was so funny. Not funny as in haha, but funny. He goes, I just knew something was wrong, but I was feeling lonely. And this is the thing that these, all these young boys tell me is that they were lonely at the time.
Kristi McVee [00:23:11]:
It was late at night, they're on their own, they're feeling, you know, they're in their fields when they should be asleep, they shouldn't have their device. And he just said, I was feeling lonely and I just didn't think. And when I think back, I look at, I looked at her at her account and she wasn't like, I could tell it wasn't a real account, but it didn't even like it happened in seconds. And that's the reality. There's no conscious critical thinking happening at that time of night. We know that our children's, you know, we know that our brains don't work as well at night. That's why most of us argue with our spouses at night. That's why our kids do silly things at night.
Kristi McVee [00:23:51]:
Not to mention you've got ADHD and your executive functioning is not working at night. You know, like, it just, it's like the ultimate scam.
Sharon Collon [00:24:02]:
So we know that this is costing lives, right? Like this is causing kids to commit suicide. It's getting more and more media. So how can we spot the warning signs that our child might be in an unsafe situation?
Kristi McVee [00:24:17]:
Most of the time our children have a major, like, behavior change. It's really important. From my own experience with my own daughter, it's really important that we know our kids really well. It's really important we understand when they're having a bad day, when they're not, when they're struggling, when they're acting out, acting out of character. You know, it's really important we know our kids because that's when we're going to pick up on the signs quicker. A lot of kids will try and mask and pretend that everything's okay, right? If they don't feel like they've got a safe environment at home or they've got someone to talk to, they're going to hide it anyway. But most of the time there's a major behavior change. So sometimes they'll go from being completely obsessed with their phone, especially if something's going and they're being extorted.
Kristi McVee [00:25:04]:
They'll be panicking and paranoid and they will be on their phone messaging back and forth with this person trying to get them to stop. And they will be panicking before they actually, you know, they might come straight to you or they might not come to you at all, but there will be like an obsessed obsession over their phone. The flip side can happen as well where they all of a sudden just drop it and don't want to be near it because they're trying to avoid it. So, you know, depression, self harm, talking about themselves like they've, they're stupid and they've done something like you know that they're. They've got no hope. Like, you know, those types of fatalistic thinking kind of things. That's definitely a warning sign. Being really sketchy about what they're doing, you know, not wanting you near their phone, closing down their messaging apps when you come near, that kind of thing.
Kristi McVee [00:25:57]:
Those are. Those are big warning signs. So like I said, it's really important that we remind our kids that no matter what happens, no matter. We'll love them no matter what. And we're always there to help them with it.
Sharon Collon [00:26:11]:
So when, if we spot those warning signs, what should we do?
Kristi McVee [00:26:17]:
I think you. I think it's really important not to freak out most of the time. And I've been there. Like, I have my daughter's. You know, some things have happened and I've, like, had to, like, literally walk out the room and go and have a deep breath, like, so, you know, if you're, if you're Kat, if you've caught on to the fact that they're acting strange and something's not right, make sure you've got yourself under control before you go and try and work it out. Because whatever they're about to, whatever you're about to unfold might test you. So, you know, especially if you've talked about not sending nudes and you've asked them, you know, you've had those conversations and you've been really honest with them and you've, you know, and you. And you thought that they got it, but you know, it's not their fault.
Kristi McVee [00:27:02]:
It is not their fault if this happens. They are a victim. And so it's really important. You're in control. So make sure you're calm before you do anything. Second of all, say straight up to them, hey, I've noticed that you're acting, like, really weird right now. Like, you're really. I think you're like, I think something's going on.
Kristi McVee [00:27:24]:
You might not feel safe to tell me or you might be worried right now, but please know that I'm here for you and this is my job. This is why I'm here for you. Whatever you're going through, I need to help you with because some things aren't for kids to deal with. They need adults. So can you please tell me what's going on? Because I've got worst case scenarios going on in my head and I'm thinking, like, something really bad's happened. So can you please tell me what's going on? And I promise that I'm not going to lose it. I'm going to just be here to listen.
Sharon Collon [00:27:53]:
Love that so much.
Kristi McVee [00:27:54]:
Yeah. And then if you need a moment where after they've told you what's going on, just like, look, I just need to run to the toilet. I've literally covered my face and gone. Can you just give me a minute? And my daughter's like, are you really mad at me? I'm like, no, I'm not mad. I'm just really scared for you right now. My job is to protect you. And I feel like I've done something and this is me talking to my daughter. Like, I feel like I failed here, but I know that we can get through this or just have some like, little, you know, just remember that if we were all.
Kristi McVee [00:28:29]:
When we were growing up, if we all had phones, we probably would have done the same. We would have stuffed up just the same. We would have done, like. I'm just grateful there's no evidence of the stuff I got up to as a teenager.
Sharon Collon [00:28:42]:
100%. Like, that's what I'm just so grateful. Like, we made so many dumb decisions and wore so many dumb clothes and, you know, like all. There's no photographic evidence of all the dumb stuff we did. Right?
Kristi McVee [00:28:54]:
No, we've just got these stories.
Sharon Collon [00:28:56]:
Yeah. But, you know, our poor kids today can't do anything without it being documented in some way.
Kristi McVee [00:29:02]:
Yeah.
Sharon Collon [00:29:02]:
So tell me now, like, once you've comforted the child and you know, you've showed them that you've got their back, that they're not in trouble, what is the next step you should take? You know, if you, if you discover that they're being sex started or you know that you've discovered that they are chatting to a predator.
Kristi McVee [00:29:20]:
Yeah. So I mean, there's a couple of other things that you can do and there's a couple of other online abuse types. So there's, there's intimate image abuse, which is the sharing of nudes. So for instance, if you're teen or your young person has shared nudes with a. Another student or another child or another person, that is called. And that person then goes and shares it on again. That's called intimate image abuse. So I'm just going to bring that up because that happens a lot in teenagers.
Kristi McVee [00:29:49]:
It's a form of bullying and it's happening a lot. So some of the things that you can do, first of all, you take screenshots on the child's phone or device of all of the chat and all of the things that are happening, the screenshots are. So if the other End of like the person perpetrating the abuse decides to delete the chat, then you've still got evidence. Okay. Second of all, you're going to either if it's online sextortion or online grooming of any type by an adult, it's going to go to the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation or ACE A C C E. They have a online reporting platform where you can report online sextortion and grooming by an adult or any kind of like that. You know, because there's. That's another type.
Kristi McVee [00:30:37]:
You know, we do have adults out there that are grooming children online to have a relationship with them. So that's where that will go. If it's cyberbullying of any type or the online intimate abuse. Intimate online abuse where nudes are being shared between teens or whatever, you can report that on to the eSafety commissioner's website. And again, you need that, you need that evidence and you do. It does help if you get the URL of where the photos are being shared. So they're just the two Australian places that we go. Sadly, and I will be really honest with you, police are overwhelmed with the amount of reports they're getting.
Kristi McVee [00:31:20]:
If you go down to your local police station, and that is an option to go down to your local police station and speak to your local police, they are most likely not going to have the resources to help. Unless it's someone who's directly known to your child, who's in their life, or you can identify your child says, yes, it's Joe Bloggs down the street. They're gonna not be able to handle anything that's either international or interstate. They're gonna be able to only handle the people that are in that child's world or from that child's school. But even the intimate image abuse stuff and you know, the cyberbullying, I'm. I'm hearing reports from parents that they're going to police and police are turning them away. And sadly, that's really stressful. So going back to teaching kids how to identify when people are pushing boundaries, when they're being unsafe, when they're making them feel uncomfortable, and giving kids permission to block and report to the platform and to cut people off when they treat them like that is really important.
Kristi McVee [00:32:23]:
I know a lot of kids struggle with, especially if they think that these people are their friends or they are physical friends in real life, they struggle to like, you know, switch off and to block these people from there, from them, because then they're losing friends and especially if children with ADHD who are struggling socially with their friendship groups and then they're cutting people out of their lives online. So it's really important that we build up resilience and resistance. We teach them, you know, healthy behaviors, healthy relationships. We give them all of the tools so hopefully they can make the right decisions when it happens. So, yeah, so the ace, the E. Safety commissioner, your local police, if it's something like local. And then there is, you know, if for instance, child's or a young person's photos are being leaked further like onto a website or anything, there is some other resources based in the FBI and the US and stuff like that called Take it down now. So you can actually upload the kids can, kids can do it themselves.
Kristi McVee [00:33:27]:
They can upload the video, the photo onto this website. And the website I can, I can send you the link so you can add it to the show notes. But it, basically every photo has a, it's called a hash and it's only something, you know, if you work in this field, but it's called a hash series and it's basically a new number that goes along with the photo. And what this take it down website does is it identifies the hash of the photo and then if that photo is ever re uploaded onto the Internet because it's a unique identifier for that photo, it will then take it down again and again and again and again. So, yeah, so that's pretty, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's by the national center for Exploited and Missing Children in the, in the US They've created this website. So that's one of the options. And yeah, there's, there's, there's, there is options out there.
Kristi McVee [00:34:20]:
But obviously the first point is we don't want kids sharing nudes. So we need to have these conversations very young with them about private parts, public parts, why? And talking through consequences as well. You know, not just saying, hey, let's don't do it. You know, what do you think could happen if someone got your picture of your privates? What do you think happens to that photo? What could happen if, you know, your friends saw it at school, you know, going through scenarios with them about what then, what can happen will help them then go. When they're in that moment, they might just think a few steps ahead and realize that it's not worth it. They might still do it. And again, they're a victim. Even if they're sending it to a person at school.
Kristi McVee [00:35:03]:
Sadly, I think it's around 65%. 65% of children over the age of 13 think that everyone's sharing needs, but it's really only about 30% that are sharing needs. And. But yet they think that's what everyone's doing. It's similar to when we were kids. Right. When I was a kid, I thought everyone was having sex by the time they were 14. And for some reason that it just, it just felt like everyone else was like going off and having sex.
Kristi McVee [00:35:30]:
But really that's not, that wasn't the case. So, you know, like, we just need to remember that our kids, what they're perceiving is not what is actual. And helping them see that perception is different to actual actuality.
Sharon Collon [00:35:45]:
So something that you said back a little bit when you're saying, take the screenshot on your child's phone.
Kristi McVee [00:35:50]:
Yes.
Sharon Collon [00:35:51]:
Is I remember being told, like, don't take it with your phone.
Kristi McVee [00:35:55]:
Correct.
Sharon Collon [00:35:55]:
Because then you've got child sex, like.
Kristi McVee [00:35:57]:
Exploitation materials on your phone. Yeah, correct.
Sharon Collon [00:36:00]:
So is that why you said, like, I just want to flag that bit, take it with your kids phone?
Kristi McVee [00:36:05]:
Yes, correct. Because do it on the device that it's already on. Because it's already on there. I mean, for anyone who doesn't realize, and I'm sure most people do, children under the age of 18, their nudes are considered child exploitation material. If they take it on their own device and don't do anything with it, they are allowed to do that and it is on their device. It is of no, you know, they won't get in trouble. The minute they send it to someone, it's called, it's basically providing child exploitation material material to someone. It's not actually the saying, but, you know, the minute they send it to someone, it becomes an offense.
Kristi McVee [00:36:43]:
It becomes you've literally broken the law. Then the minute someone else sends it on, they've broken the law supplying of a child exploitation material. So, and that's another thing that our young people need to know. You know, by the time they hit high school, the pressure's on. By the time they hit year six, they're talking about it. So, you know, this is very, very real in their world. And if they don't know the legislation and the law around it, you know, it's actually against the law. Why do you think it's against the law? Why do you, why do you think it's against the law? Because kids, our kids, we don't, you know, it's not okay for children to do this because your children, you know that you've got a long time as an Adult.
Kristi McVee [00:37:23]:
But right now you're a child and your children's brains are still developing. They, you know, it's not for everyone to see and we need to protect kids because you guys are still very vulnerable. My 16 year old thinks she's 18 and that she should be able to do whatever she wants. And I'm arguing with her constantly about the fact that I realize you feel older and I realize right now you're thinking like you're an adult but you're still a 16 year old and you still need to remember that until you're 18. These things apply to you. And you know, just keep like keeping their head where they are at is really important. Especially when they're seeing things that are adult. You know, they're exposed to things that are very adult themes online.
Kristi McVee [00:38:06]:
They're talking about adult things. You know, don't doubt, you know, the average age of a child seeing porn for the first time is between 10 and 12 now, you know, if, if our children are seeing such adult things all the time, they're going to think that they're more mature than they are when we know that that's not true.
Sharon Collon [00:38:23]:
So thinking about parental controls now, you did touch on it there with the, with the Apple device. Do you have any that you routinely recommend?
Kristi McVee [00:38:32]:
Look, it's really hard. Like I know of one which I think has been built really well, which is bark. It's a pay look. Don't trust anything if you don't have to pay for it. But I mean Apple and Google and Android have built in like Family Link and Apple devices have parental controls there. Give them a go, make sure they're on because kids can work out how to turn them off.
Sharon Collon [00:38:58]:
I'm so glad you said that because I had it set up and then the little, the little people turned it off without me knowing.
Kristi McVee [00:39:04]:
Yeah.
Sharon Collon [00:39:05]:
So I had to set it back up again. They outsmart me every day of the week.
Kristi McVee [00:39:08]:
Yeah. And they are, they're like, they're born, they're little mini geniuses. We're just like seriously flopping around trying to work this stuff out. And you know, don't doubt that they're going to work it out and their friends will tell them how to work it out too. You know, my daughter, a quick story about some, something she did. So she, when she was, she knew that she wasn't allowed social media until she was 13. It was a hard and fast rule in my, in my house. And she knew why we'd had these conversations.
Kristi McVee [00:39:39]:
She'd had the little hissy fit that everyone else was doing it. And, And I, you know, and I'm just, I was just firm. I'm like, my job is to protect you, and this is our family rule, and this is why. And sorry, I'm not budging. And the more you stay firm and firm on your beliefs and why, and the more times you reiterate that and you don't waver, the less fight you get. Every time. But the sneaky little turd that she is, the smartie that she is, she worked out that she could download, and I'd set it up so she couldn't download new apps, but at one stage she must have downloaded it and it. So once it's downloaded once, obviously you can just reinstall it.
Kristi McVee [00:40:24]:
She downloaded TikTok. And so what she would do is she download TikTok while she wasn't home on her app, on her iPad, and then delete it before she got home. And so when I went to look at her device and check, you know, the apps, the games, the messages, etc. Because I did that periodically, very regularly when she was. Before she hit 13, I was checking all the time just to keep my finger on the pulse, just to make sure I knew there would be no TikTok on there. I didn't know for three months that she was downloading TikTok and using TikTok in year seven. And it just happened that I stumbled across her so on Apple. And I'm sure it'll be the same on Android.
Kristi McVee [00:41:08]:
On her screen usage, you know, screen time usage, you can see what apps they're using at what time and how, for how long? And I saw TikTok and I was like, how did that happen? And I, and I basically, she ended up confessing to me because I said, have you been using any apps that you shouldn't be using or that you know, that I'm not okay with? And she was like. And she would. She knew the game was up. Yeah, but you know what I did then? So she was in year seven and it was halfway through the year, so she was nearly, nearly 13. And I said to her, okay, do you think that you deserve to have TikTok? And she was like, I don't deserve it after what I've done, but I really would like to have it. And I said, okay, if you really want TikTok and you think that you can use it maturely, I want you to do a project on it and I want you to go and give me the pros and cons of TikTok I want at least three cons, you know, three bad things about it, and I want you to come up with a set of rules for usage, and I want you to come up with some consequences if you don't stick to the rules.
Sharon Collon [00:42:24]:
Love this so much.
Kristi McVee [00:42:26]:
And so I gave her the. I gave. I said, you take as long as you need to do this. And so she created a PowerPoint, because at that stage, she knew how to use PowerPoint. She created a PowerPoint. And then I made her present to me and my husband on why she should be allowed to have TikTok. And then when she was finished, we created a contract with all of those rules on it and all of those consequences on it. And we both signed it and we put it on the fridge.
Kristi McVee [00:42:50]:
And so from that day forward, she was allowed to have TikTok. And when she came to us with the presentation, she showed, you know, she shared, you know, why should I have TikTok? Or it's good for educational. It's, you know, entertaining. It's, you know, all of these good things. And then I can connect with my friends. And then the bad things were some children, and she had learned this through her own research that, you know, some children had done challenges and they had passed away from it and that, you know, sometimes you see content that's not good for you and like, not your brain's not ready for, and, you know, the algorithm keeps you locked into it. So she learned all of this through her own research. And then, you know, she had some.
Kristi McVee [00:43:29]:
Some of the rules where she could only have a private account, she could only have one account, not multiples, because that's what kids do. They'll show you the one that they've got, which is private, and then they'll have all of these fake accounts that they create to have public accounts. And then she had, you know, she could only use it for this much time per day, and if she, if she did any of these things, her. The consequence was to lose her device for a week. And I was like, whoa, that's like a. Or maybe it was a month or something. Because I was thinking and do you know, I never had to put. I never had to instigate any of it.
Kristi McVee [00:44:02]:
She stuck to it. And she was, you know, because she had. I had put the responsibility back into her hands.
Sharon Collon [00:44:10]:
She had buy in. She had buy in, which we know is great. So if you could leave our amazing listeners with one piece of advice about how to raise our gorgeous kids with ADHD in this digital world that can be you know, a little bit overwhelming. What would that piece of advice be?
Kristi McVee [00:44:31]:
Oh, good one. I would say the best piece of advice is to be interested in what they're doing and to sit aside, let's sit side by side with them, play that game that they want to play. You know, I've played Roblox, I've played Minecraft, I've sat beside my daughter and played Fortnite. I've played GTA with her, like, because she was trying to hang out with a certain group that played GTA and I was like, I don't really like this game, but okay, I've sat beside her while she's been on TikTok and watched the stupid TikToks that she watches. Like, Like, I want to pull my eyes out and blow your mind, but I'm like, and, but you know what I did every time I do it, and I still do it today, this is her bonding time with me. Like, she sits there and she shows me what's going on in her world, right? And you know, I sit there and say, oh, like, you know, if we were playing a game together or if we were watching TikToks, to go, oh, why do you think that? Like, you know, I would just make her think about what she's consuming or where that friend. Where do you know that friend from? How do you know them? Why do you follow that creator? Or what are the. Why do you like that creator? Or when we were gaming, you know, oh, so how do you block people in this game if they're really like doing the wrong thing, you know, and just spend half an hour a week with your kid on whatever that.
Kristi McVee [00:45:53]:
Because that's going to. Not only it's going to make them feel connected to you, they're going to feel safer to come to you. If something happens, keep reminding them.
Sharon Collon [00:46:03]:
Yeah, I love that so much because I feel like with some of this stuff we have the tendency to feel like it's one and done, right? Like, we've set up parental controls and we've like talked to our kids about these things. But the truth of the matter is that our kids need that repetition and that, like, we need to check in with them regularly about that and keep exposing, explaining what you know and keep asking questions and keep being curious about it because we're so outmatched with technology. You know, it's changing so much and I think AI is coming in and changing everything again. Like, you know, we need to, you know, keep that dialogue going. Yeah, gorgeous kids about what they're using it for and what, you know, what things that they should be on the lookout for.
Kristi McVee [00:46:43]:
Yep. And, you know, Snapchat, for instance, you know, it's designed not for adults. It's made specifically so that we are confused on there. If you don't want to get on Snapchat and learn how to use it, get your kid to show you how it works. If I could ban any one app, it would be Snapchat. I know Instagram is the worst, but Snapchat is definitely up there. The obsession with streaks and with, you know, and especially with our young people with ADHD streaks makes them nuts. They feel like they have to do it.
Kristi McVee [00:47:17]:
Like they can be. My daughter is only just broken her streaks with a few friends because she was device free for a week on a camp. And she was like, before the camp, she was like, oh, my God, my streaks are gonna go. And I'm not gonna be. I'm like, who cares? And she goes, I've had them for 600 days. Like, 600 days where they've had to send a photo back and forth. And it's shit photos. Sorry about the language, but they're just.
Kristi McVee [00:47:42]:
They're just sending shit to each other for the sake of sending it. There's no quality. And, you know, some of these kids are doing things and, like, my daughter will show me what's happening in her friends worlds, and I'm like, why are you still friends with them? Do you even talk to them anymore? And they're like. She's like, no, but I just feel bad if I'd block them or, like, unfriend them. And so then we have a conversation about why, like, if you're not friends with people, you don't owe anyone anything and you need to, like, protect your mental health. And, you know, I was telling you before I started, I went to Bali and, like, for two weeks. And it was meant to be this, like, retreat where I was, like, refilling my calf and I was meant to have this great time, right? But it was the worst time of my life. I hate Bali now because of it.
Kristi McVee [00:48:27]:
I got barley belly. I broke a tooth. I was sick the whole time. I had a really crap time. But you know what? You wouldn't know that from my photos. And I was just having that thought this morning. I didn't post one update about how bad a time I was having. I posted just beautiful photos because how can you not take beautiful photos in Bali? There's so many beautiful places and gardens and experiences.
Kristi McVee [00:48:50]:
But I just realized that it was so fake. And this is what our kids think is normal and real. They think that everyone else is having the greatest time of their lives. They think everyone else is living a life that they don't live. And that's not the truth ever. So we need to make sure our kids understand that, you know, people don't, don't give their true selves online.
Sharon Collon [00:49:11]:
It's that highlight reel thing. It's just. Yeah. Oh, you look. You've shed so much gold today. I really want for you to share where people can find you and please tell them a little bit about your book.
Kristi McVee [00:49:25]:
Sure. So where you can find me, My main two platforms are, funny enough, Instagram and TikTok.
Sharon Collon [00:49:33]:
Oh, you gotta go where the people are.
Kristi McVee [00:49:35]:
Instagram is christymcv. No dots, no nothing. So it's just Christy McVie. And on TikTok, I am the TikTok Cop81. I've had that account for like three or four years. But yeah, so TikTok Cop81 on TikTok, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook. But my two main where you're going to find out the most information is on Instagram and TikTok. And I've got my website, it's www.cape-au.com.
Kristi McVee [00:50:03]:
there's lots of free resources on there. I've actually got two free checklists for parents. One's the Safe Gaming checklist and one's the Busy Parents Online checklist. And it's basically just giving you a few hints on what to do. So they're free. I have all sorts of other stuff, but my book, you can get it through Amazon and it's both on written Kindle or Audible. So, yeah, it's called Operation Kids Safer Detectives Guide to Child Abuse Prevention.
Sharon Collon [00:50:31]:
I just want to thank you so much for the important work that you're doing too, because goodness knows it is not an easy space, but gosh, it's an important one.
Kristi McVee [00:50:41]:
Yeah, it really is. It really is. And I just want parents to have the tools so that they can protect their kids and that their kids can have safe childhoods.
Sharon Collon [00:50:51]:
Thank you so much, Christie.
Kristi McVee [00:50:53]:
You're welcome. Thanks for listening, guys.
Sharon Collon [00:50:55]:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the ADHD Families Podcast. If you loved it, please share it on your socials. I want this to start a conversation about adhd. If you want to make this mum do a little happy dance, please leave a review on itunes. If you would like to know more about what we do, check out thefunctionalfamily.com I truly hope that you enjoyed this podcast and you use it to create a wonderful, effective, joyful life with your beautiful chills.
