Michelle Mitchell [00:00:00]:
And the earlier the onset of puberty, the more at risk our kids are to be struggling and to struggle with their mental health. That just puts us in a place of huge responsibility, is to surround them with that safety, that sense of, hey, I can be that big person in your life right now and I can bring in what you need, which is that security right now while you do all the development work you need to do to catch up with yourself.
Sharon Collon [00:00:29]:
Welcome to the ADHD Families podcast. I'm your host, Sharon Collin, an award winning credentialed ADHD coach and consultant and mama and wife to a very ADHD family. I am seriously obsessed with making life easier for people with ADHD and those that support them. My business, the functional family, provides life changing support and strategies for ADHD. I particularly love anything that saves time, decreases conflict, and creates space for fun. Do you want a life with your beautiful family that is more functional, fun, and full of joy? Let's explore together the wonderful and sometimes wacky world of family life with ADHD in the mix. Welcome to another episode of the ADHD Families podcast. I'm your host, Sharon Collin, a credentialed ADHD coach, consultant, and parenting expertise.
Sharon Collon [00:01:23]:
And I am so happy you are here. Today we are chatting about puberty and ADHD and to explain this topic and to really give us some incredible tools for us to try at home, we brought in the incredible Michelle Mitchell. Now, I saw Michelle talk at her resilient kids conference recently and she blew me away. She's got this gorgeous, compassionate approach and we are very much aligned in our parenting views. I thought, I have to get her on the podcast to talk about this topic because she literally wrote the book about puberty. Well, she wrote the books about puberty. Now, she is a parenting educator with 25 years experience in the wellbeing sector. She started her career as a teacher, but soon after founded a charity which delivers life skill programs to young people at risk of dropping out of education.
Sharon Collon [00:02:14]:
Her work extended into the child safety sector, refugees, and alternative education. She lives with her husband and two young boys and she's an all round fabulous human. She helps us in this episode really delves into how we can support our kids in those puberty years and how those puberty years and how we handle them set the path for how they're going to be as a teenager. And we talk about everything from body image to behaviors to what's going on cognitively, behaviorally, sexually as our kids go through puberty. And this is an episode not to be missed. I hope that you love it. Welcome, Michelle. I am so happy you are here today.
Michelle Mitchell [00:02:59]:
Oh, Sharon, I feel so privileged to be here. We've been trying to tee this up for a little while, and you and I are meeting face to face, and this is exciting.
Sharon Collon [00:03:07]:
Oh, I know. I've seen you speak, and I was blown away. And I know how much beautiful knowledge and what a lovely approach you have for supporting our gorgeous kids. But before I get too excited with all my questions, can you tell our beautiful listeners at home a little bit about you and what you do?
Michelle Mitchell [00:03:26]:
Yeah. I started my career as a teacher, and that lasted about four years. I soon found a real interest in wellbeing. I was one of those teachers who didn't care so much whether e was on the end of a word. And I was trying really hard to care, but I didn't. And some of my colleagues, it just flooded their boat. And they would spend all lunchtime, like, debating whether it should be a semicolon or a, you know, a comma or a full stop. And I just cared about whether kids were happy and whether they were thriving in life.
Michelle Mitchell [00:03:56]:
And I quit teaching at 24. I founded a charity. I started working with kids at risk of dropping out of school. And that led me into such diverse places, everything from working with kids who were, you know, refugees to kids in detention centers and alternative learning schools. I have done a lot, included founding a psychology clinic. So there's. There's not a lot that I haven't done, but it's been very earthy, grounded, grassroots work with families.
Sharon Collon [00:04:28]:
Love that so much. So, today's episode is all about puberty, and we really haven't talked about puberty on this podcast. I was just saying to you before we hit record that I'm a child of the nineties, right? So this is my knowledge of puberty. My parents walked me into the school primary school library. They dropped me off at a weird seminar around, surrounded by all my school friends, which felt very strange. We were watching this weird seminar about changes to our body, and then all I remember is at the end, because I really liked my parents to buy me things when we went out. Like, of course, trying to get my parents to buy me something, but not really wanting what they were. And, of course, they didn't.
Sharon Collon [00:05:08]:
But that was such a weird concept of, like, dropping your kids off to be educated at puberty. But then we never spoke of it again. Like, never spoke of puberty. Like, it was just supposed to be a one off seminar that I was educated, and then that's it.
Michelle Mitchell [00:05:23]:
One and done. Tick it off. It's so weird now for us in this day and age, it's so weird. But our parents were doing the best with what they knew. I mean, at least they did that. Some kids got absolutely nothing and girls got their periods and they didn't even know what was going on. I mean, how scary. How scary is that?
Sharon Collon [00:05:44]:
My auntie thought that she, she got told that if she swallows chewing gum, she would die. Right? This is like. So she got her period and thought she was dying from swallowing chewing gum. Like, how crazy is that?
Michelle Mitchell [00:05:58]:
Yeah. And tweens brains are so literal. And so you tell a child something in that age bracket, they're going to take you. Very literal and concrete. So that is really scary for a child. Yeah. I think what we haven't understood is this period of growth is very rapid. It's the second most rapid period of growth since toddlerhood.
Michelle Mitchell [00:06:21]:
And if there's any stage in life where they're very adaptive and moldable and responsive to us as adults, it's this age between, say, nine and twelve. It can literally change the trajectory of their life and literally change the experience that they have in adolescence if we're able to capitalize on these years. And I think sometimes we've seen these years as very latent or, you know, very insignificant in children's lives, but they're anything but that. And when I wrote tweens, I was so lucky to come across Doctor Lisa Mundy. She's an absolute legend in this area and headed up the Cats study, children to adolescent transition study. It's a world first study that was able to take the saliva of children and analyze it and give us insights into how adrenal androgens, or the hormone dump that happens when puberty starts really affects the mental health of children and actually impacts their growth. And she was able to walk me through how significant this stage is, and I got so excited about it because I realized that it wasn't the teenage years that were perhaps so pivotal in children's life set up to the teenage years. And I think instinctively we know this because we tend to lean in in these years and we treat them like the last hurrah.
Michelle Mitchell [00:07:49]:
It's like I've got to hold on tight now, and I want parents to get that feeling. It's like, hold on now, secure your attachment now. Children are almost, their attachment needs almost resurface. It's like they're re establishing that attachment to you before they emerge as their own person. And I guess talks about puberty are all ways that we are doing that. But the underlying need that children actually are having is, can I feel safe and trusted with you as I grow? I know you love me as a child, but are you going to love me as I emerge into an adult and I hear it echoed in children's voices all the time? I had one girl say to me this, if I spend more time with my friends, am I going to lose my relationship with my mum? And this is an eleven year old girl. And I think we forget that as our children grow, we grieve them to a certain degree, we're losing our babies, but they are also grieving the loss of us, you know, and we don't see it that way sometimes, you know, the sass and the mood swings and all this. But we don't also see that they're grieving a part of them that's falling away as well.
Sharon Collon [00:09:04]:
Oh, you just said so much, Cole. So I want to narrow in on the mental health bit. So you're talking about the set up for puberty, you know, really setting them up for their mental health. Can you give us a little bit more detail about that?
Michelle Mitchell [00:09:16]:
Yeah, and I wouldn't say, Sharon, that I'm an ADHD expert at all. And I know a lot of your listeners have children who struggle with ADHD. I have one child that does as well. And so I'm very much on the same page as a lot of your audience, but what I have learnt is those adrenal androgens get dumped in adulthood doses. And so this is a big jarring shock to kids brains. And the earlier the onset of puberty, the more at risk our kids are to be struggling and to struggle with their mental health. So that just puts us in a place of huge responsibility, I think, to really surround them with. I think what, what our responsibility is, is to surround them with that safety, that sense of, hey, I can be that big person in your life right now and I can bring in what need, which is that security right now, while you do all the development work you need to do to catch up with yourself.
Michelle Mitchell [00:10:17]:
There's five ways our kids are developing. It's not just physically, it's socially, emotionally, cognitively and sexually, which we never want to hear, hey. So it's all of these things changing at once on them. So it's this rapid change in their lives. And all of those five areas change at a different pace. So they can be growing like a bean sprout, yet be emotionally and socially quite immature. And we find ourselves almost like plugging the gaps. We can find ourselves almost speaking for them sometimes because they can be looking like they're 13, yet inside be childlike, you know? And I think we know our kids better than anyone else, but I think we need to slow down when they're between nine and twelve and just remember what it's like to be this age.
Michelle Mitchell [00:11:15]:
And it's so hard to do when you're in your forties is remember what it's like to be nine and feeling overwhelmed and confused and faced with big adults that are having conversations with you and you can't find the words to answer them.
Sharon Collon [00:11:30]:
One thing that I wanted to say there is, even with ADHD, we know that there's that 30% maturity delay, that lag time, right? So this would be even more pronounced. And, you know, so we're looking at our kids who look like teenagers, but just not quite there yet. In terms of maturity, we know this has nothing to do with intelligence. This is maturity. And so it's even more pronounced like we are. We have to give them a little bit more grace, don't we? But it's so hard when they look so grown up.
Michelle Mitchell [00:11:55]:
That's exactly right. And you feel like you're running blind sometimes, you know, like you can't. What you see is not always what's going on inside. And I think when other people cast that judgment on our kids, and maybe we feel that social pressure, we've got to be very, very mindful that just because our kids look like they're up for it or look like they are twelve, doesn't mean they're developmentally or cognitively. They're emotionally ready for it. I think it's so important that we don't judge our kids, you know, by, you know, their physical development. You know, that we've got to remember that there's more to them than meets the eye.
Sharon Collon [00:12:33]:
And one of the things that you mentioned there is like, that feeling of safety and the feeling that your parents have got you right, which you came across so beautifully in your talk that I watched you at the resilient kids conference. And I love talking to our community about that unconditional regard piece because, like, we're not parenting like Santa. We don't only come along if you've been a good girl or boy. Like, that's ridiculous. Can you give us a little bit of a talk about how you view that?
Michelle Mitchell [00:13:00]:
Yeah, I can. I'm just so all about this and I'm loving it. And I feel like these are the years where we almost clear the Runway to our kids hearts. You know, there's often some debris that's built up over these years, and we have this sense that, oh, if I had done this or if I had have done that, or I failed in this area. And I think with so much talk about parenting styles, we can almost feel like we've caused some of these issues, which is not true. Parents. Okay, can we get that signed, please? Let's just burn all that in some big bucket somewhere. If you're hanging that over your head, let's not, because you don't cause these things, okay? We.
Michelle Mitchell [00:13:43]:
We can kind of exasperate them sometimes. Yes, but if you are showing up and prepared to grow, I can tell you with the work that I've done with kids that don't have families, that are showing up and growing, man, you are your child's greatest advantage in life. If you're showing up and growing, that is all your kids need. You are the most perfect fit for your child in the whole world. But these are the years that I feel like our kids want us to reinforce that attachment to them. And I feel like there's. There's real merit in going back and looking at some of that beautiful work that Doctor Neufeld does around attachment. And look at those six stages of attachment that he talks about that happened in those toddler years, that sense of proximity.
Michelle Mitchell [00:14:30]:
You find that twins start hanging around you more, that they want to sometimes sleep next to you again, that they get that fearfulness of separation, that gonorrhea playdates become this big deal all of a sudden, you know, that they, they get afraid of sleepovers, whereas when they were younger, they might not have. But I see that, and I don't know that this is any kind of big theory that there's any research on, but I've just seen in my work, it's almost this resurfacing of that attachment need. And it's one way that we can just step into that space again and bring that certainty around them. Now, we don't want them to avoid those big, heavy lifts that they need to do in life, but we need to step beside them. It's power with them in those circumstances, the sameness starts to increase as well. You know, they want to be the same as their mum and dad sometimes, and they start to say, I notice boys all the time, dad and I like this, or, you know, and they just go on and on about it. Mirror them. Parents, you know, like, amp that up.
Sharon Collon [00:15:42]:
Yeah.
Michelle Mitchell [00:15:42]:
You and me do, like chocolate ice cream. Hey, you and me need to go get that chocolate ice cream, just amp up the sameness. If they're hungry for it, give it to them. Loyalty, belonging, being on the same team, that's part of attachment with kids. And it's so important that we separate them from their behavior. That's part of reinforcing attachment and then this significance and then mattering. Do your eyes light up when they come into a room? And if there's any teachers here, if you've got children in your classes who have ADHD, they are novelty seeking. Yes.
Michelle Mitchell [00:16:19]:
They struggle to sit still. Yes. But the number one thing that will keep them engaged in school is that you notice when they walk into a room, you know, they need you to notice them. But it is, again, part of that feeling of safety and attachment and Neufeld's last two stages, that, that emotional intimacy and that being known and that psychological intimacy. When kids share their secrets, when kids share their heart, and that's what tweens do. They want to pull you aside, and they want to share the deepest parts of themselves, and they want to keep you close forever. That is a very special place in their lives, and you want to nurture that. And I find that when they want to write you notes and they want to tell you what's happened at school, you want to leave space for those late night talks before they go to bed, because that's the stuff that they.
Michelle Mitchell [00:17:15]:
You want to get that in before they start to become teenagers. You want to make those memories now.
Sharon Collon [00:17:22]:
So something you did touch on there is behavior, and we know that as kids go through puberty, there might be an increase on some challenging behaviors, and we might get called up to the school for some really interesting choices. Can you tell us about how we should support our kids in this time?
Michelle Mitchell [00:17:41]:
Yeah. What do they need in those messy moments? Hey. And they don't need us to sidestep them. That's really important. And because that's saying, I'm ashamed of you and what you did. And we don't want shame. We want to lay it out on the table. Okay, you messed up.
Michelle Mitchell [00:17:58]:
You know, like, okay, that's not okay. But, heck, I love you. It's like there's parts of our kid, you know, like, there's a part of you that messed up right now, and I'm not ashamed of that either, but, or, and is the right word. And you are a glorious human being, and I love you to bits, and I can call you to a higher version of yourself. And if you're not up for it today, I get that as well. But we're going to work on that together. And I think there's these slow moves, these slow steps towards, you know, that sort of calling them to their. Their highest value.
Michelle Mitchell [00:18:36]:
But I feel like they. They need to be accepted for who they are in that moment first. What I always also like to say in that moment, too, to them is that you right now is enough. Even if you look really messy, you know, you right now is enough. And I can hug you and love you exactly the way you are. And when I walk into a deputy's office, if I've ever needed to support my own child, and I've been there, okay? I've been there.
Sharon Collon [00:19:11]:
You're in the right place. Yeah.
Michelle Mitchell [00:19:13]:
If I've had to walk into that room or if I've had to advocate for a kid, the very first thing I do is make sure I catch the eye of that child. And if that principal or that teacher has to just wait and I put my hand up to them, they are my second priority, and good teachers will get it. And I catch the eye of that kid, and my eye has to say to that child three things. I've got you, in other words, and the subtitle of that is, sit down, kid. You've done plenty enough for one day. And if I get to hug them, if I get to side hug them, if I get to whisper that in their ear, I've got you. Like, you know, it means I'm going to be the big person here, and I'm leading us out of this mess. There's never been a kid drowning at sea who hasn't wanted me to rescue them.
Michelle Mitchell [00:20:08]:
I've sat with the toughest boys, literally the toughest boys who've knifed kids. I've sat with, you know, kids before they've gone to trial. I've. I've sat with kids and I've looked at them. I bought an eyeball, and I've said, okay, this is not good. And you've been kicked out of five schools now, and we're not going to sidestep this. We've got to man up and fix this behavior. And that might not be a term I use in this day and age, but maybe 15 years ago, I would.
Michelle Mitchell [00:20:38]:
But we actually have to take responsibility for what's been. But I also want to say to you that you follow me. I'm good at my job, and I know the way out of here. And sometimes we need to be that big person that says, okay, I love you, but you don't know all the moves right now. But I do. And I've got you, you know, and if you will just trust me in this moment, I've got you.
Sharon Collon [00:21:08]:
Oh, beautiful, beautiful. So when. I'm just wanting to narrow in on the shame piece because I think when we. When we talked to parents, and I know personally, some of my worst parenting moments have really been about when I've been worried about what other people will think. So, you know, supporting your kids and maybe sometimes the behavior looks, you know, it triggers things in other people and you feel like you have to take action and you feel the judgment of, like, someone gonna do something about that child. And so I don't know where this all comes from, but, you know, we feel that and we feel the shame. Can you speak to how we should, you know, maybe coach ourselves through some of that shame for big behaviours and big emotions? We know that ADHD is. They feel in the extremes, so we face this on a regular basis.
Michelle Mitchell [00:22:00]:
Yeah. And I think signs that says, you know, it's not if your child gets an award, but whether they're the sportsman that matters, it's those kind of signs that actually put a lot of pressure asked to say, hey, you know, the only kind of performance in life that we're coaching is actually, you know, the kicking the soccer ball. But social emotional skills are the learning. Like, they're not the side learning. It's not like we get the friendship issue out of the way so kids can do the real learning. Like this is. This is the learning people like. And some of our kids struggle with this learning more than others, you know, and if kids could do well, they would do well, you know, and the best thing we can do is show up for each other as parents and actually get beside each other and realize if one of our kids is struggling, if one of our kids is in tears, if one of our kids is emotionally not coping, it's because they're struggling with those five areas of growth.
Michelle Mitchell [00:23:02]:
It's not just cognitive learning happening here, it's social emotional learning. That's big stuff too. And because let's come to back to this, Sharon. In the tween years, learning happens in gusts. It doesn't happen in this like slow, steady trickle. Think of it like the windows get opened and sometimes like this big hurricane, this gust of learning, this gust of wind comes through the windows and when I see a kid have a huge meltdown, they're ten years old because they didn't win. Just think of it like the windows are open. That kid's just getting, like, this massive gust of learning and they're not coping with.
Michelle Mitchell [00:23:46]:
Sometimes it's perspective taking, seeing things through another person's perspective, and they're going, I feel so embarrassed because I didn't kick that ball well, and what is everyone now going to think of me? And. And it's just like, overload in their brain and we should never take that on our own shoulders. Like, what have I done wrong that my child's having a gust of learning? But somehow in society, we've got these slogans and these snappy pieces of parenting information that are just crap that are just not. Just not helpful. So I think the first thing we need to do as parents is just depersonal that and go. My journey and my child's journey are two separate things. And the first thing I need to do is recognize that if I put my baggage on my child right now, we've got double the trouble. And so my job right now is to be super, super careful about the narrative that I'm putting around, what my child is going through.
Michelle Mitchell [00:24:54]:
And I need to own my story, be really careful about that narrative, and I need to sturdy up the big person's story. And that big person story is exactly this for me as a professional. I walk into a space with that big person energy that says, I'm good at my job. I'm here to show up for you, and I know the way out of here. And as a parent, I need a very similar story that says I'm that horizontal relationship. In other words, I'm your mama. I show up to be here for you, not, it's not all about me. And I am gonna wrap love around you right now and make sure I've got eyes for you, not eyes for me.
Michelle Mitchell [00:25:44]:
And if I have to process my emotions, I will from you. To be able to do that, that's my responsibility to do. So. I ring my mum, my auntie, I book into a psychologist. I do whatever I need to do to be able to unpack my story so I can show up with big person energy for you so much.
Sharon Collon [00:26:06]:
Have you said what you just said was gold? So a lot of our parents, if they. One of the things I get from our community is that our kids struggle with emotional regulation, but so do the parents. And when you talked about, you know, doing what we need to do to be able to show up for our kids, do you have any other tips about how we can settle ourselves before we go in to support our kids?
Michelle Mitchell [00:26:28]:
Yeah. You're a person first and then a parent. Okay. And I think we put so much damn pressure on ourselves to be, like, super parent parents. Chill outd. Like, it's. It's okay to feel. You have permission to feel.
Michelle Mitchell [00:26:48]:
You have permission to be upset. You. You have permission to shake that glitter jar up and, like, let fly. Swear words are allowed. Like, you can feel whatever you damn well want to feel. Like. I feel like we missed that step. It's like we almost are not allowed to feel anything first.
Michelle Mitchell [00:27:09]:
Like, yeah, you feel. You feel all your feels. Okay, we're allowed to validate our kids emotions, but just don't drown in them, okay? You are an individual person, and you are allowed to experience your individual feelings, and then you got to get yourself together, because what you say and what you do matters, because what. How you show up and the energy you show up for your kids is contagious. And sometimes you do have to fake that energy a little bit. Let's face it. We all have to sometimes. But whatever you do between pause, like, that energy and your responsibility, that's really important.
Michelle Mitchell [00:27:53]:
And I think even just acknowledging the humanity in that is important. Is that tangible enough, Sharon?
Sharon Collon [00:28:00]:
Oh, I love that. I love that you're almost describing like, that. What we talk about is that power of the pause, that practicing that pause before we go in, because action, when you're. When you're heightened, action feels good. It feels like you're doing something about it. But, like, if we don't gather ourselves before we go in there often, like, I don't know about you, but, like, if I don't pause and take a breath before what comes out of my mouth is venom, right? So I have to pause to gather it myself, settle it down, and then talk. And then if I pause, what comes out of my mouth is constructive and helpful and connection first.
Michelle Mitchell [00:28:33]:
You know that saying? Like, you can't. You can't. If you don't give yourself what you want to give your child, that's where we run into trouble. I feel like we're so focused sometimes on our children and being what our children need, we just don't give ourselves a minute to give ourselves what we need. So just stop, and it doesn't have to be long. But even the acceptance that you are a human being and the acknowledgement of that, and it can be a two second thing. I'm a person first, then a parent. Just stop and say that to yourself.
Michelle Mitchell [00:29:07]:
Hey, that's why that hurts. That actually really stings. This is my precious kid who's just been called up, blah, blah, blah, at school or the teacher's rung and doesn't know the whole situation, or I'm not feeling understood here, just the acknowledgement of that and just go, that hurts. Just. And then shake up the glitter shah in yourself and go. And go. Now I've got to get myself together because I've got a responsibility to do and I'm going to do it like a damn boss, you know? And sometimes it's got to be quick and we've got to fake that next step. I get it.
Michelle Mitchell [00:29:44]:
And sometimes we can ring such and such on the way to. On the way to the apartment appointment at school or whatever we've got to do, but it is. I feel like we just skip over that acceptance bit because we've got a job to do. But just hear my words in your head, parents, when you've got to do that and just say you're a person and it's okay to just feel it for a second and let me just. Let me give you a virtual hug right now and say, I feel it. You know, and it's okay to feel it. It really is.
Sharon Collon [00:30:14]:
So thinking about puberty and how we communicate this with our kids and, you know, we know that the nineties version of the seminar maybe was a bit weird. So how. How do we communicate the changes that are happening to our beautiful kids? Like, how much should we tell them, you know, do you have a good script that you can help us communicate with our kids? About that?
Michelle Mitchell [00:30:35]:
I got a good book. It's a good script.
Sharon Collon [00:30:38]:
I'm going to attach a link in the show note to Michelle's books. And I was saying to Michelle, before we hit record, that I've got a best friend that's got all Michelle's books. She absolutely loves it. I'm surprised I don't have a whole list of questions from her like, I love this. Yeah.
Michelle Mitchell [00:30:52]:
I've just finished writing the where babies come from one, and it's taken me two years. It's been the hardest book I've ever written because to me, it was just so important to get right. And the puberty books are a hard act to follow. Okay. Yes. I have so much. I am so big on being child led with this topic. I think we have been very agenda led.
Michelle Mitchell [00:31:13]:
I think we have tried to shove this topic down kids throats because we've been so scared of what technology is, feeding kids. We've wanted to get in first, but sometimes it's freaked kids out. I'm really big on drip feeding. I'm really big on making sure that we are making growing up fun. And I feel like that we have sometimes been very fear based in our approach with this topic. And I feel like these need to be positive memories for our kids and they need to be laughing their way through it. And I think that's the tone I've tried to strike with the books and I want them to be giggling their way through it and I want them to remember having these conversations with their trusted adults. And I really do want that seared into their hearts that growing up was fun, not.
Michelle Mitchell [00:32:04]:
Not traumatizing. Yeah.
Sharon Collon [00:32:07]:
Yeah. So when we talk about making it fun, like, do you recommend, like, grabbing your amazing books and sort of going through it with the kids, reading them about it and then sort of dripping it into daily, like or to, you know, regular conversations so it doesn't feel like such a big thing?
Michelle Mitchell [00:32:22]:
Yeah, I reckon both. And I say you can ask them for some kids, they want to look at the book first and have a little bit of private time and be pre armed to have conversations with you. And then other kids want you right by their side, page by page because they need the security of that. And I love the sense of giving them those options. I love that idea. For some kids, they do like that sort of variety. I think a little bit of both is always a great idea. I always say to parents, though, if you kind of just incidentally talk to kids about this topic, you'll find that, you know, they were busy eating their McDonald's burger while you thought you were giving them a real heart to heart and they were just really enjoying the pickles and, you know, you thought you had ticked the box of, you know, talking about something quite significant and they didn't hear you at all.
Michelle Mitchell [00:33:17]:
So I feel like saying to them, like, we really, it's time for some really grown up conversations. Where would you like to have those grown up conversations? And, you know, they're going to take about like, 20 minutes. Would you like to have them on the back deck or would you like to go for a walk? Or would you like to make sure, you know, your younger brother isn't around and we have a chat in your room and giving them lots of ownership and choice, letting them know how long it's going to last is important, too, because they think you might not shut up. And that's when they start to opt out and tell you when enough's enough. So it's all of those little tricks that kind of help give them, like, that upfront knowledge of what's going on just in case they're feeling a little nervous and anxious about it.
Sharon Collon [00:34:05]:
And so for our listeners at home that are looking at their beautiful kids going, oh, how do I know when puberty's starting? Because if everyone is little bit different, why don't they have a sign or something? So can you tell us how things that we should be on the lookout for?
Michelle Mitchell [00:34:20]:
With our girls, it's a little bit easier, because with our boys, we don't tend to see their body very much, because they can just start to. Yeah. Like, they can start to sort of put their clothes on. We don't see that little first pubic hair. We, with our girls, we tend to see the buds behind their breasts showing a little bit. We can. We can see those signs a little bit more. Their body can start to change, and we can see the shape changing a bit more.
Michelle Mitchell [00:34:45]:
So with our boys, it can be a little bit trickier. You know, pubic hair is obviously a. One of those signs, those ghosts words, their hunger, mood swings can be another one. Yeah. I think also we need to look for those psychological changes, their interest in people's bodies, and their interest in talking about puberty. I don't think it also needs to be just designated to physical changes. Again, looking at social and emotional changes as well. I think that's really important cues as well.
Michelle Mitchell [00:35:20]:
Yeah. I think some of those key changes are also, like, just the white discharge that girls tend to get on their underpants. That can happen 18 months before they get their periods, but is one that girls are very, very aware of as well.
Sharon Collon [00:35:35]:
Thank you. Talking about nakedness now, I know, you know, when the kids are little, you know, they just come into the shower, like, no one's got any barriers.
Michelle Mitchell [00:35:46]:
They're not perspective taking it. Yeah. They're not seeing it through our eyes.
Sharon Collon [00:35:51]:
For some of our kids, you know, who are, you know, with the maturity, they're not picking up on these things as they get older either. Can you speak to a little bit about when, you know, what nakedness should we feel comfortable with? Our kids ask, like, what should we do here? It's an area where people are a little bit confused. Like, yeah. How do we. How do we navigate this?
Michelle Mitchell [00:36:13]:
It's a really good question, Sharon. And every family's very different with this, and there's no judgment on it at all. There's just one thing I'd like to probably propose that parents think about is that if you wouldn't want kids to do it when they are at a friend's house, it might be something to consider putting boundaries around in your own home only because especially between eight and twelve kids are very literal. And so they might not, even if you tell them this is just something that's, you know, okay at home but not in other people's homes, they don't always transfer that to another person's home. And with their safety and with their personal boundaries, it might be something to really consider that it might be a safer way to go and maybe a more appropriate way for them to consider the safety of other people's bodies as well. So I always think of it like that. Are those boundaries transferable?
Sharon Collon [00:37:16]:
That is really great. So thinking about parents that need a little bit more support in this area and perhaps they, obviously, we've got your beautiful books there. Can you direct our parents to your resources or, you know, anything that you think is going to help them navigate this?
Michelle Mitchell [00:37:37]:
Yeah, look, the book tweens is quite comprehensive in the sense that I think some of the topics that are coming to my mind that might help parents is there's a chapter on body image that always comes up with just that heightened sense of body image or that, you know, that self consciousness at this age, speaking the language of teens, of tweens and boundaries, that's in the book as well, and self confidence and self esteem. And we've touched on some of those things, but there's very chapter specific and technology. I mean, let's face it, it's all, you know, but there's very chapter specific things in that book, tweens, and it's 80,000 words, so it's quite comprehensive. So that that book's there then the everyday resilience journal for kids. And it's got, you know, great, great journal, but lots of content in there with friendship strategies and resilience strategies and gratitude and contributing to the world. And then the puberty books. And we've got that where babies come from, that's coming out between now and the end of the year, which will be a lot of fun as well.
Sharon Collon [00:38:43]:
So one thing I wanted to ask you just for our last question is a little bit about that self esteem, because we have kids that otherwise confident or perhaps were very confident when they were younger. Now all of a sudden, tearing shreds off themselves in terms of body image, even their ADHD, you know, really recognizing at this age that they are different, you know? Really?
Michelle Mitchell [00:39:07]:
Yeah. I don't have all the attributes.
Sharon Collon [00:39:09]:
Yes. It's like an age. I see it come up with parents all the time. They're like, you know, he had friends before he was able to. He wasn't aware that he was operating on a different system a little bit, but now he's acutely aware, or she's acutely aware that she's operating on a different system. How can we support our kids with their self confidence and their self esteem?
Michelle Mitchell [00:39:29]:
Oh, we could do a whole session on this.
Sharon Collon [00:39:31]:
Could we?
Michelle Mitchell [00:39:34]:
Can. When you're ready. I'm up for this one. Because to me, when we're talking about changing the trajectory of their life, words at this age and how they internalize them are a big deal. And the, when we're talking about gusted development and the windows opening to things, this is one of them, because we talked about perspective taking, didn't we? For the first time in their life, they are on a different level, putting themselves in the shoes of another person. And this might be the first time they're really understanding that someone else doesn't see them in the same way as they thought they did. I mean, when you're younger, you think everyone loves you, you think you have all the attributes, and then all of a sudden you realize that you're not the coolest, you're not the tallest, you're not the funniest, that other people might not like you, and that hurts. And then they're going through the skill set, which is a huge skill set, in how to handle criticism and how to process feedback well.
Michelle Mitchell [00:40:37]:
And that's brave work. And if we list out the skills that it takes, like self awareness, reflection, humility, accountability, I mean, there's courage. What it takes to handle feedback, the social, emotional, you know, the skills that takes. And I think we go, you know, like, we should be able to give our kids feedback, you know, 24/7 no, no, no. They are on feedback overload. And if we have timeshare and short story, is that. Okay, go.
Sharon Collon [00:41:10]:
Let's go, let's go. I'm so interested in this.
Michelle Mitchell [00:41:13]:
All right. Okay. There's, I mean, a mum of a daughter who had ADHD. I talk about a courage quota that our kids have for feedback. And particularly kids with ADHD, they don't have just this unending bucket of courage all day because they already have, oftentimes a deficit narrative that says, I don't have everything. You know, they have an under inflated self esteem to start with. And so this is, this is an issue for them. They've got this, you know, perception of themselves that they aren't enough.
Michelle Mitchell [00:41:47]:
So the mum, when I spoke, I've got an hour, you know, presentation on this. But the mum came to me afterwards. She said, I see where I'm going wrong, Michelle. I'm using 40% of my daughter's courage quota before she's even getting to school. And I'm trying to help her because I'm saying, remember that your teacher needs this, this, and this from you. And remember she's asked you to do this. And remember not to talk over your friends. And remember about this.
Michelle Mitchell [00:42:14]:
And don't forget your lunchbox. But what I'm doing is I'm using so much of that courage quota that she needs for her day. Parents, is it true? Is it helpful? But is it necessary? Is it necessary because our kids need that courageous quota for what's really necessary in their school day. And particularly with kids with ADHD, you got to remember, they don't retain 90% of what you're saying anyway. It's for your benefit, not them. So keep it for the important things, because all they're hearing is, you're putting holes in my bucket, mama. You're just putting holes in my pocket. And so we're dropping them off at school just with holes in their bucket.
Michelle Mitchell [00:43:03]:
When could we be reinforcing their bucket with that attachment stuff I'm talking about.
Sharon Collon [00:43:10]:
Love that so much. You know, I saw in a presentation that we had this week, the beautiful Emma Gilmore used the quote, you know, ADHD is being told you're too much and not enough at the same time. You know, like, isn't. Isn't that quite. Just cuts to your core, though, doesn't it? Like, yeah, and, you know, how can we. What's some really great ways of enforcing that bucket? You know, obviously that attachment stuff, if you've got some tangible takeaways that our parents can go, oh, I can try that.
Michelle Mitchell [00:43:38]:
Like, you're a beautiful gift to the world. Hey, go and think differently today. Yeah. Your energy is amazing. Hey, use it to love people today. Like, talk about where they could invest that amazing energy today. Hey, go and be a beautiful gift to your teacher today. You know, like, reinforcing who they are and helping redirect or direct where they could contribute to the world.
Michelle Mitchell [00:44:06]:
And I just think that's just such a better use of their headspace. And look, if you need to drop one, one key tip, do it in a useful, helpful way. Is it true, helpful, necessary, but do it in a space and time where, you know, you're attuned and you're attached to them in that moment where it's going to fly directly to a space in their heart and it's not just going to seep out of that bucket.
Sharon Collon [00:44:39]:
One of the things that I love to do and I have to do very intentionally because afternoons are not an easy time in household is to welcome our kids back home. Because I used to forget about that. Like I'd get in, I'd be like, have you got your school bags, this school bag, like your lunchbox and blah, blah, blah. And just go straight into this, like, let's get things done because I want to sit down, right? But I stop for a minute after they have something to eat because we don't talk until they've had something to eat. You know, we just work that out. That's a good strategy for our family. Fill up, you know, get blood sugar back to normal. Then I make sure I welcome them home and I say, I missed you today.
Sharon Collon [00:45:15]:
You've got a spot here. This is your, this is your home. This is your safe place. You've got a seat at the table. You know, if I make sure that I welcome them back in to their safety and really highlight that for them because I feel like they, they have to be on edge all day holding, you know, everything in a system that perhaps is more challenging for their operating systems. And I want to just let them know that now's the time that we can relax. You're welcome here no matter what, you know, like it's. This is your place and that has been such a lovely thing to do.
Sharon Collon [00:45:43]:
I don't know how, like, they haven't said it. I think it's just actually a nice reminder for me as well to start off the afternoon in a nice tone.
Michelle Mitchell [00:45:51]:
Like, I couldn't have said it better. There's spaces where we can't feel during the day because we have to switch off just to do our best and do our work. And when we're able to rest from work and feel again, that's when we restore. And that's what you're providing for your kids, you're providing rest from work, the work of having to switch on, be your best self, you know, switch on and behave and do it all. And we all have to do that. I mean, I go to work and I have to do that. I don't have time for my feelings all the time at work. I have to switch off.
Michelle Mitchell [00:46:37]:
But home is that safe haven where we can truly unwind and rest and be ourself. That's the utopia we all yearn for. And that's what you've created for your children. And it comes back to, our kids won't fight as much, they won't yell for our attention as much they. As much I know they will. As much they won't do all those things as much as if they've got that sort of sense of, I can just rest here, I can play here, I can be close here. I matter here. I belong here.
Michelle Mitchell [00:47:18]:
I've got some sense of safety and closeness with the people who truly have my back.
Sharon Collon [00:47:24]:
Oh, you've shed so much gold with our beautiful listeners today. And me. Can you tell us if you were going to, number one, I want you to say, can you tell us where to find you? But also maybe just one or two things for our beautiful listeners at home, like parting words of wisdom or some key takeaways that they can take from this podcast and implement at home.
Michelle Mitchell [00:47:47]:
Oh, my gosh. Okay. You are never, never a failure. And parenting is usually difficult when you're doing a good job of it. How's that? Like. Yeah, if you're having just a crap day, just remember, it's normally because you're invested, because you care and because you are all in. If you. If you didn't care, you.
Michelle Mitchell [00:48:10]:
You wouldn't be having such a bad day. It's because you actually really care about your kids. Yeah.
Sharon Collon [00:48:16]:
Love that so much.
Michelle Mitchell [00:48:19]:
Yeah. And you can find me michellemitchell.org. and my socials, I think they're Michelle Mitchell, author. So I think. Yeah, thank you. So I think across Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn, I think they're Michelle Mitchell, author.
Sharon Collon [00:48:35]:
Now I'm going to put a link to all of that in the show notes. I want to say a big thank you to you, Michelle. It's been so amazing chatting with you today.
Michelle Mitchell [00:48:44]:
You're glorious, Sharon, and I'm sure your audience as well is as well. Thank you for being with us all, everyone who's listening in, lots of love to you.
Sharon Collon [00:48:53]:
Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the ADHD Families podcast. If you loved it, please share it on your socials. I want this to start a conversation about ADHD. If you want to make this mum do a little happy dance, please leave a review on iTunes. If you would like to know more about what we do, check out thefunctionalfamily.com. i truly hope that you enjoyed this podcast and you use it to create a wonderful, effective, joyful life with your beautiful children.
