Elly Both [00:00:00]:
There are strengths that come with ADHD that I think maybe other brains may not have. So I think it's just looking at it from a balanced perspective of, yes, there are these challenges. Yes, we're always trying our best and doing the best we can. And also here are some of these strengths that we have, which, if we can foster these in our kids and make it okay to have different working brains, I just want to make sure that kids understand that about their brains. It's not all bad. It's not all that laundry list of challenges. They're there, and I never want to sugarcoat that at all. But it's also, there's so many good things that if we can harness as parents, I really want that to be our role is to harness these strengths that the kids have to kind of help them, you know, wherever they go in their careers or whatever they do when they grow up.
Elly Both [00:00:43]:
I think that's what I'd love to foster.
Sharon Collon [00:00:45]:
Welcome to the ADHD Families podcast. I'm your host, Sharon Collin, an award winning credentialed ADHD coach and consultant and mama and wife to a very ADHD family. I am seriously obsessed with making life easier for people with ADHD and those that support them. My business, the functional family, provides life changing support and strategies for ADHD. I particularly love anything that saves time, decreases conflict, and creates space for fun. Do you want a life with your beautiful family that is more functional, fun, and full of joy? Let's explore together the wonderful and sometimes wacky world of family life with ADHD in the mix. Welcome to another episode of the ADHD Families podcast. I am so happy you are here today.
Sharon Collon [00:01:38]:
I am interviewing the awesome Elly both. Now, she has written a book called a Kids book about ADHD. This is about helping our kids, age about five to nine, understand ADHD, understand the challenges, but also the strengths. It is a beautiful book that journeys us through Elly's own experience and how her brain works and empowers kids to do the same. Elly was diagnosed in her early forties. It was a late diagnosis, and it led to her developing a real compassion and understanding for how her brain works and using her ADHD strengths to her advantage. Diagnosed with ADHD in her early forties, Elly's has transformed her personal journey into a source of empowerment, not only for herself, but for young minds grappling with similar experiences. Her book aims to redefine ADHD for young readers, encouraging them to see ADHD not as a hindrance, but as a superpower that provides them with a unique way to see the world and existing in it.
Sharon Collon [00:02:40]:
Elly is also a self professed green geek and the founder of Brightgreen, a sustainability consultancy based in Singapore. In this chat, we talk about Elly's journey about what led her to write the book, what happened after she was diagnosed with ADHD, and what she recommends for parents that have kids with ADHD. I can't wait for you to hear this chat. Let's get to it.
Elly Both [00:03:05]:
Welcome, Elly.
Sharon Collon [00:03:06]:
I am so excited to have you on the podcast today.
Elly Both [00:03:10]:
Thanks, Sharon. Very happy to be here.
Sharon Collon [00:03:12]:
So tell me a little bit about what you do.
Elly Both [00:03:16]:
So I'm a sustainability consultant. I work for myself. I'm an Aussie mum of two boys, and I'm based in Singapore, so I do a lot of things. And I've also just recently written my first book, a kids book about ADHD.
Sharon Collon [00:03:28]:
Now, I know that a lot of our beautiful listeners and the people inside our support group on Facebook, they are crying out for books to help their children navigate ADHD and, you know, written in a way that they can absorb. But before we get into that, because I know I'll get excited about that bit, I want to start a little bit about your ADHD journey. Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like for you.
Elly Both [00:03:52]:
Growing up with ADHD? Yeah, sure. So I think, you know, growing up, I think I found certain things challenging that other people found really easy, and vice versa. I found some things really easy that other people found challenging. So I don't think. I don't. I think at the time, I knew that there was something a bit different about my brain, but I wasn't really sure what that was all about. I think if you look back to my school reports, which I did as part of the assessment process a few years ago now, the school reports were, you know, smart kid, has to stop talking in class and bothering a classmate. It was very much like I needed to connect with people and talk to people, and I tried really hard to sit and listen, but my brain was just going, you know, 100 miles an hour and wanted to be somewhere else, or I was just on a completely different planet or fairies head in the clouds.
Elly Both [00:04:40]:
All those things I used to hear a lot of as a kid as well.
Sharon Collon [00:04:42]:
And how did you go? What made you seek a formal diagnosis?
Elly Both [00:04:48]:
I think probably a story that a lot of late diagnosis parents would be familiar with, which is that one of my kids was showing signs of what I thought could be ADHD related. So I decided to have a look at an online checklist I was working through that checklist. And there was just like this aha moment for me, which was, every single thing on this list is resonating with me. So it probably wasn't a surprise. Like, as I was doing it, I was thinking, oh, my gosh, of course this is. Of course this makes sense to me. You know, it's a bit of an emotional thing, right? And then, you know, interestingly enough, didn't go down the diagnosis or the assessment and diagnosis process with my kid for a while. He was quite young at the time, but we are going through that process with him now.
Elly Both [00:05:31]:
Interesting enough, which is, you know, a lot of the parents, as you say in your support group, will have been through this. It's not an easy time. It is quite a challenge. You know, we don't know what's going to come out of that and how that might change things for our family. I want to do it for him to provide that support, I guess, that I didn't have, if that's, you know, if that's sort of where it leads. But I think, yeah, for me, I was looking at this checklist thinking, I've got a lot of this stuff. And for me, it was just really important to go through that assessment process. I think a lot of people at this age would have gone, look, I've had a good career in the corporate world.
Elly Both [00:06:05]:
I've started my own business. I know myself really well. But there was just something that became, especially during COVID and all of the lockdown, we had a long lockdown here in Singapore on and off. And I think that was a very challenging time for me. So when I was looking at all of these things, I thought, I just want to go and talk to someone about it to see if that's something that resonates with me. And I thought, you know what? It's not necessarily for the medication. It's not necessarily to, like, have the snap, but I just kind of wanted to talk about it. And going through the process was just, like, really a game changer for me.
Elly Both [00:06:38]:
I'm so glad I did it. I would never look back, never regret anything about doing that. So, yeah, it was. I mean, it was also a very positive process. Like, I get that I was privileged in the support that I've got here, you know, from a medical perspective as well. And it was all very smooth and everything was very accessible for me. So I know that that's not the case for everybody, but I. I was, yeah, at the end of a, you know, month or so process, I had a diagnosis, and you know, some.
Elly Both [00:07:03]:
Some really good medical care. So I know I was lucky for that, but, yeah, I think having that diagnosis was just, like, another aha moment. And I was so relieved. I think on that day, I just burst into tears. Like, it was, again, such an emotional thing for me. I was like, oh, my God, that's what it is. Like, everything just, you know, so many things made sense. That's why that's hard.
Elly Both [00:07:24]:
That's why this is easy. That's why this has been challenging. That's why I can't sit in an open plan office at work to save myself. Like, there are all these things. I'm like, oh, that just all makes complete sense now. It's not a character flaw that I can't switch my brain into that gear. Sometimes it's this way my brain works, and that's totally cool. And I think it was.
Elly Both [00:07:44]:
Thinking that it's totally cool was a new thing for me before it was like, oh, come on, man. Like, why can't you just do this thing? Like, just sit down and do it? And having the new phrase of like, oh, that's totally cool. That's just how your brain works was just, you know, just a different thing for me. So I think that's what's been so positive.
Sharon Collon [00:08:03]:
I love that so much. I'm curious about, you know, you talked about growing up. Some things were easier for you and some things were harder. Can you tell our beautiful listeners what those things were for you?
Elly Both [00:08:16]:
I used to compare myself to my brother quite a bit. He'll love hearing this. But things like even just meeting new people or talking to people for the first time, because I was so worried about not being able to think of how I wanted to say something or the words that I wanted to use. I would not put myself in a position like that or at work, public speaking. I found something that was really challenging and had to do it for my job. But I would always have to over prepare every single thing I wanted to say and really know the message behind what I wanted to say. Before I'd put myself in a position of, you know, looking bad because I'd forget what was often for me. I was like, that word is so obvious, and I couldn't think of it.
Elly Both [00:08:56]:
And that was a, you know, people. I was always thinking, oh, people are just going to look at you and think you're stupid. Like, that was one of the things that, you know, I was sure people were thinking because I just would always have that, you know, that tip of the tongue syndrome. Like, that's a real thing that I struggle with quite a lot. And now I know that losing words and not being able to explain yourself articulately sometimes can be highly correlated with ADHD. So it was things like that that I would probably stop myself from being in a situation where I wouldn't want to look like I wasn't smart, but I was very aware that other things I was really good at. Like, I was always able to write really effectively, but sometimes that verbal communication for me was a real challenge. So I would step back and kind of hold myself back from things, whereas looking at my younger brother, he would just, you know, go off and talk to anyone and be really comfortable doing that.
Elly Both [00:09:48]:
So we're very different in that way.
Sharon Collon [00:09:50]:
Interesting. And what about some of the things that you found easier than other people? What were the advantages?
Elly Both [00:09:55]:
Oh, gosh, I'm very quick at things, so I can. I know, I just kind of know how to figure things out. So in the last part of my corporate career, a few years ago now, I was a project manager. And for that, the way that my brain works, that is the ideal job for me because I could take a big picture thing, which seemed completely insurmountable and overwhelming and break down how we were going to achieve that goal. And for me, that's a very, it's a very clear thing to do. It's step by step. It's logical. You can start with something really big, figure out how to deliver it, and then over time, like, you're not doing it all in one day, obviously, but over time, you figure out how to get that end result.
Elly Both [00:10:35]:
So I've always found that kind of a complex problem solving piece quite easy. As I say, writing's always been an easy way for me to, you know, I guess, explain what I want to explain. And I spend a lot of time doing that in my, my business. I do a lot of writing now as well for people. But, yeah, the written side of things has always been something that came really easily to me as well.
Sharon Collon [00:10:57]:
It's interesting, so often I see in my work that I do that, and I always say this to people that often. People with ADHD are sprinters, right? So they're really good with project work or, you know, like, using their incredible brain that's great with pattern recognition to do, like, projects. But when we get them to do, like, those kind of long running marathon jobs, that's where we start to come up and say, what you're almost describing there is, you know, seeing a really complex problem, breaking it down into steps and then achieving that deliverable, like, going for it like a sprint, essentially, which is awesome.
Elly Both [00:11:30]:
And the pressure helps. Like, having that continued pressure for a, you know, three to six month project is also really good for our brains. And they also think it's a novelty. So I was thinking about this as well, that in all of the jobs I've had in a corporate career, they've always been things like recruitment, where you had to have, you know, 25, 30 things on the go at any one time, or spinning plates. That's kind of another job that, you know, it was always, like, a lot of novelty, never the same day twice and all that kind of thing, which I think I was also very drawn to, also connecting with people and understanding about, you know, what makes them tick. I think that's just probably just a hobby of mine. But, yeah, I think that complex problem, breaking it down, and someone said to me recently, I don't really understand how you knew how to do that. And I was like, well, that's just easy for me.
Elly Both [00:12:15]:
That's something that comes really naturally. So I'm conscious that's not the same for everybody. But it's interesting, isn't it?
Sharon Collon [00:12:20]:
Isn't it interesting? And, you know, I don't think that stuff gets enough airplay, you know, because I often look at my husband's brain and what he's able to do as, and I'm in awe of some of the stuff that he's able to, like, how it puts things together. Sometimes I'm a bit jealous, to be fair. Like, yes, there is some parts that I'm sure he would happily swap out, but, like, a lot of the stuff, like, I'm quite jealous.
Elly Both [00:12:45]:
Yeah, there are some. Yeah, there are some benefits. And I think that was, you know, I think a nice segue as well to why I also wanted to write the book, Sharon, because I think the way that, you know, if we could just give kids, you know, a handbook of, like, well, this is what your ADHD brain can do. I think that that's really what I was wanting to achieve by writing the book. So I think, you know, I also think, yes, there are a lot of challenges, and I think, you know, you work with parents who are in these situations, and it is really hard to have a kid who's got sensory issues or, you know, a lot of that stuff who struggles with more than, you know, with more than one instruction at a time. Like, these things are, like, to function as parents, we need those things to work well, and sometimes they just don't. So. So I also think along with these challenges, we also have some of these superpowers, which I talk about in the book as well, which is this creativity.
Elly Both [00:13:35]:
It's the pattern recognition that I think you're talking about in your husband. It's the thing of this amount of energy that we have, you know, the sprinting side that you were mentioning as well, and just that creativity, like thinking of ideas and, you know, the pinball brain bouncing around and putting things together that we might not ordinarily see, which I also really love. I think that's a really cool thing.
Sharon Collon [00:13:55]:
Yeah. So tell me a little bit about what. Firstly, we should talk about the book's title and who it's aimed for, what's its intention?
Elly Both [00:14:03]:
So it's a kids book. It's called a kids book about ADHD. And yeah, the intention is to have grown ups read with their kids, parents and caregivers alike, to really understand, I guess, you know, what it means to have this ADHD brain, which can be unique in a lot of ways, and to talk about some of the challenges and to talk about, you know, it is really hard to sit still and listen when you want to be bouncing around the room or, you know, you'd rather be daydreaming about what you're going to do on the weekend or a story that you might like to write when you get home from school. And sometimes it's hard to sit and concentrate. So as well as acknowledging those challenges, it's also about looking at some of these superpowers that I mentioned as well. And I think the way that these books are written, this is one of a series of about 100 plus books now, I think by a kids co based out of the US. And I think every one of these books a parent reading with your kid, we learned something too from these books, which is why I was just gung ho to write a book with these guys, because I think, you know, there's a kids book about empathy, and when you read the book about empathy, you're like, oh, yeah, that's really me understanding empathy on another level, or a kid's book about racism, white privilege, things that we find really hard to talk to our kids about. It's like we're also learning these concepts on another level as well.
Elly Both [00:15:20]:
So I think with, with my book and with the ADHD side of things, I really wanted to, you know, I guess, explain to parents and caregivers that sometimes the kids are doing the best they can. And, you know, sometimes I know from experience that, you know, my brain, I want to really try and wrangle and wrestle and get it to do what it, what I know it's supposed to do. And sometimes that's really challenging for me. So I think it's just, I guess, accepting things the way that they are, you know, not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, but just to really kind of go with the flow of it. And I know that's easier said than done. I completely get that. But it's. Yeah, I think just.
Elly Both [00:15:57]:
Just giving that level of understanding and empathy that, you know, all of us with ADHD are genuinely trying our best most of the time, and it's not always that easy. So I think that's really why I wanted to write the book and what I wanted to impart.
Sharon Collon [00:16:11]:
So in your book, you talk about a strength based approach or you operate on a strength based approach. What does that mean to you?
Elly Both [00:16:18]:
I think it's, you know, and again, I want to say it's not glossing over the challenges that we face. I mean, there's a laundry list and we can obviously go into that for half an hour if we chose to. But I think it's also, you know, it's a balanced view. Right. So, as we said, there are strengths that come with ADHD that I think, you know, maybe other brains may not have. So I think it's just looking at it from a balanced perspective of, yes, there are these challenges. Yes, we're always trying our best and doing the best we can. And also here are some of these strengths that we have which, you know, if we can foster these in our kids and make it okay to have, you know, like, one of my kids just loves to write comic books, so he would sit and hyper focus on writing comic books.
Elly Both [00:16:55]:
He would do it all day, every day if we let him. Honestly, he loves it so much. And whether or not that's going to be a career for him, I mean, I couldn't give two hoots. But it's just something that he loves to do. He wants to, you know, he's always saying, oh, that would be a really good comic book mummy. He's always, like, thinking kind of about that. And I think having a strength, which is whatever that, whatever that, you know, the love or the strength that you choose to focus on and to foster, I love that kids maybe who have different, different working brains have some of these strengths that they can, you know, hang their hat on. So it's not.
Elly Both [00:17:29]:
You're always being reprimanded for not trying hard enough and, you know, not being in the room and not focusing. But, you know, you also know, hey, I'm really good at drawing. I'm really good at creating stories. I'm really good at building Lego. I'm really good at whatever these strengths are. And I think, you know, I just want to make sure that kids understand that about their brains. It's not all, it's not all bad, it's not all that laundry list of challenges. They're there.
Elly Both [00:17:53]:
And I never want to sugarcoat that at all. But it's also, there's so many good things that if we can harness as parents, I really want that to be our role is to harness. These strengths of kids have yet to kind of help them, you know, wherever they go in their careers or whatever they do when they grow up. I think that's what I'd love to foster.
Sharon Collon [00:18:12]:
And how has your understanding of ADHD changed over the years?
Elly Both [00:18:18]:
There's a lot more focus on it now. I mean, I'm sure you've found this in recent years, building your community and so on as well. I think we as society have always viewed, well, historically viewed. ADHD is like what little, what little boys do. They struggle to sit down and it looks like this. This is what ADHD looks like. Whereas now, and I've talked to some, you know, parents and teachers in Australia recently who are saying, actually now, the way that we look, we don't just look at it as a gender basis. We look for kids tuning out in class.
Elly Both [00:18:48]:
We look for kids who do find it difficult to sit still. And yes, that's definitely, you know, front and center and what's quite visible. But it's also the kids who are sitting, they're daydreaming and they're not focusing. They might not be mentally in the room. So I think the understanding of ADHD being what this box looks like versus there are whole different ways that ADHD can present. It can be the nervousness and the anxiety, which is what I experienced as a kid and for most of my adult life as well. It can be a lot of these just tuning out in meetings or in class. It's a lot of that sort of stuff which I think we probably weren't so aware of even a few years ago, I would say, yeah, I think we're more open to the fact that it is a multifaceted condition.
Elly Both [00:19:32]:
I think we're more open to the fact that, you know, and I talk about it in the book as well. The word disorder is really, it's a really difficult word, and I talk about that I'm not the biggest fan of that, obviously, as well. Yeah. My view of this would be much more balanced view, you know, back to my earlier point as well. And I guess that's. That's how I would like us to be, to be talking about this more broadly. And I think that's changing. I definitely think there's a lot more attention on this, and I think that's changing, too.
Sharon Collon [00:19:56]:
Yeah. The word disorder is a tricky one. And, you know, I now see kind of a movement of people asking to call it a disability. Right. Not only because if we want to ever be in a position to get NDIS funding for it, then they're trying to align it with a disability. Right. That's not necessarily in line with my personal views, but I can see why that would encourage support. And that's the one thing that everyone is crying out for, you know, support.
Elly Both [00:20:26]:
The support is absolutely needed. And I think that's. Yeah, it's a fraught topic, isn't it? But I think the. Yeah, this is. It's costly for a lot of families. A lot of families can't afford this. You know, a lot of families are struggling to make ends meet without additional needs for their kids. And at the end of the day, that's.
Elly Both [00:20:44]:
I think that's the most important thing. Right. So I think that. Yeah, I know it's fraud and it's a really difficult topic to cover, but like I said before, you know, I wish that other families could have the support and needs that I've. I know, been very lucky to have. And I know that's not the same for everyone, so. Very conscious of that, too.
Sharon Collon [00:21:01]:
Very, very tricky. So tell me, most books, you know, kids books, take us on a bit of a journey. Right. Can you tell us the journey that your book takes our beautiful kids on?
Elly Both [00:21:12]:
Sure. Well, it's. It's very personal, actually. So it's my story and all written from my point of view and talking about the way that my brain works and what I wanted to kind of share and some of the feedback that I've had from, you know, parents messaging me and saying, my son kept saying, oh, mummy, that's me. Like, in every page of the book, he would say, oh, I do that. I do this. This is me. And another kid saying, oh, Elly really knows me so well.
Elly Both [00:21:39]:
This kid that I don't know at all, but, oh, she really knows me so well. So I think the journey back to your question is, you know, for me to kind of describe and explain some of the things that I've struggled with in the hope that that will, you know, make, make kids feel okay if they're struggling with similar things. So it's not a, it's not a story as such. It's not a, you know, central character has an adventure, but it's more, you know, sharing some of the experiences and some of the challenges with emotional regulation, which I know I've listened to a couple of your episodes and that you've talked about a lot. And I think it's a really important component of it as well. You know, it goes through in the book the things that we tend to struggle with, and then it goes through some of those strengths that we talked about before as well. So that's really. Yeah, that's the things that I really wanted to touch on in the book.
Sharon Collon [00:22:31]:
And when a child closes the book and the parents are reading it to them, what do you want them to.
Elly Both [00:22:36]:
Walk away feeling that they've figured out what their superpower is, that they've figured out that this doesn't just have to be that stamp on the paper, which is you've got this thing that now you have to deal with it. Like, yes, there are the challenges and also there are these really cool sides. We've just got to figure out how to get into those. How do we tap into those cool bits that you've got? How do we foster, you know, you've got this special interest in whatever it is that you love. How do we help you make time in your day to draw, make time in your day to play soccer for an hour and a half, because that's the thing that you really love, to make time in your day to, you know, to foster your creativity in some way that you, that you really want to do or connect with your friends or, you know, make up games or whatever it is that you love to do. So I think walking away with, and there are questions at the back of the book, which I hope parents will, you know, we'll talk through with the kids as well to say, you know, like, what is your superpower? What's that one thing that lights you up inside that makes you really happy and that, you know, that, you know, you practice and practice and, you know, you're really good at it. You know, it makes you happy. So I think that's, that's the real thing for me that I wanted to share.
Sharon Collon [00:23:42]:
Beautiful. Beautiful. Now, if people want to find you, how can they find you?
Elly Both [00:23:48]:
You can find me on Instagram. I'm adaywearrite, and I'm [email protected] awesome.
Sharon Collon [00:23:54]:
And if you were going to leave our beautiful parent listeners with some, you know, perhaps a few tips that they could try for home, because I love a little bit of action. I love a little bit of action. Oh, it's because I'm an ADHD coach, right? I'm driving to action. Can you tell me what those steps or perhaps some things that they could try would be?
Elly Both [00:24:16]:
Yeah, sure. I think one, it's not an easy one, but I think accepting the way that things are, accepting that you've got this kid with a Ferrari brain and bicycle brakes or, you know, how we might talk about it, that's, that's, I think the first thing, and it's not always easy and, you know, lived through it, too. The second thing I think is just figuring out, you know, what, what is their superpower? What's really that thing that they love to do. And then thirdly, just how do we help to find a to that? So I think, you know, as a parent, if we can do those three things and the challenges will be there, there's no sugar coating here. But how do we help them feel, you know, gain that self confidence and self esteem from the things that they love and that their brains are really good at and how do we foster.
Sharon Collon [00:24:57]:
That love, that they're beautiful takeaways. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Elly. That was a really lovely thing, and I can't wait to, to read your book and share it with our gorgeous community. I'm sure it is much needed.
Elly Both [00:25:12]:
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, Sharon. It was lovely to chat to you.
Sharon Collon [00:25:15]:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the ADHD Families podcast. If you loved it, please share it on your socials. I want this to start a conversation about ADHD. If you want to make this mum do a little happy dance, please leave a review on iTunes. If you would like to know more about what we do, check out thefunctionalfamily.com. i truly hope that you enjoyed this podcast and you use it to create a wonderful, effective, joyful life with your beautiful children.
