Donna Moala [00:00:00]:
If we look at sleep, like, if they weren't walking by the time they were two, you'd go to a physio that, you know, sleep's the same. My view and my passion, and this is all science based for the last 50 years, is we support our babies to master the skill of sleep. So, you know, with parenting and again, exhausting, you've got three kids with ADD or whatever and you're exhausted. You've got nothing at the end of the day. So you've got to sit down with that and just think, okay, this is really like, make sleep a priority and try and figure out your bedtime routines, winding down and stuff like that and setting a nice, firm, nurturing boundary. Everything's fixable.
Sharon Collon [00:00:38]:
Welcome to the ADHD Families podcast. I'm your host, Sharon Collin, an award winning, credentialed ADHD coach and consultant and mama and wife to a very ADHD family. I am seriously obsessed with making life easier for people with ADHD and those that support them. My business, the functional family, provides life changing support and strategies for ADHD. I particularly love anything that saves time, decreases conflict, and creates space for fun. Do you want a life with your beautiful family that is more functional, fun and full of joy? Let's explore together the wonderful and sometimes wacky world of family life with ADHD in the mix. Welcome to another episode of the ADHD Families podcast. I am so happy that you are here.
Sharon Collon [00:01:30]:
Today we are chatting about ADHD and sleep, and in this episode we are focusing in on younger kids for this one. So we are chatting with the incredible Donna Moalla. Now, she is a pediatric sleep specialist and she is going to help us with our beautiful kids that sometimes struggle with getting to sleep, staying to sleep, sleep, our sleep routines. Donna also shares with us her and her family's ADHD story. And this is our a high paced, full of practical tips episode. Let's get to it. Welcome, Donna. I am so happy to have you on the podcast today.
Sharon Collon [00:02:13]:
I'm so excited.
Donna Moala [00:02:15]:
I'm so excited to be able to talk about this. We've been talking quite a lot about add and sleep and all sorts of things, so I can't wait to share some stories around this.
Sharon Collon [00:02:25]:
Now, this is going to be because I know, you know, worked together a little bit before. I know that you're super high energy and you've got lots of wisdom to share. So I'm sure our audience is going to love that. Can you start off by telling us a little bit about you and your story?
Donna Moala [00:02:42]:
So my story is currently. Today I am a mother of three teenage daughters. So they're 1816 and 13. I was a stay at home mum for ten years and that was by choice as my husband built up his physio practice. But there's good and bad with that because I sort of lost myself and I was quite happy to be a stay at home mom. I didn't have a career to race back to. And then as my elders started to, you know, get into schooling and things looked quite not the norm. I don't know if that's the right word, but, you know, you look at other people around, you think, oh, she's not talking the same.
Donna Moala [00:03:19]:
Or, you know, all of those sort of things started to pick up. We were picking up. And so by year six, we had. She was diagnosed with AUd. So that's been this huge journey for me because she was diagnosed. So as anyone who's probably listening to this, who might have had a child that's been diagnosed, I think a high percentage of parents would be going to those pediatric appointments and going, oh, my gosh, that's me. Is that not normal? Is that not normal? Oh, my gosh. So that's.
Donna Moala [00:03:49]:
She's 18 now, so there's been such a long journey with that. All three kids have been diagnosed. And instead of looking it as a negative thing, I'm someone who always just wants to do the best that we can with what we've got. And they sometimes feel like it might be a negative thing, but I'm like, no, it's not. And so that's been quite a big journey in regards to parenting, understanding my add, which as a young adult had anxiety and sort of mild depression and stuff like that, which is all linked. And like I said, I'm not someone that just sort of sits in that space. I'm like, okay, how can I start feeling better? So that is a lot of research with that on the other end of that side of being a parent and a mum and going through all of that, I am a sleep specialist, so, pediatric sleep specialist. And the reason, well, I've been doing that for seven years, but my passion started 18 years ago, because sleep is such a priority for our mental health.
Donna Moala [00:04:46]:
And so I didn't know that this was going to be my purpose in life, but having additive, having burnouts all the time, even in my twenties, if I look back, I was pedantic about sleep because if I didn't get great sleep, my anxiety and everything would be way worse. So now I'm living it, living in as a business, which I don't even like to call it my business, it's my passion in life is watching my children grow up and still now they need sleep so much. So what's starting to be talked about a lot, and I don't know if you've heard this because you are in the industry, a lot of people go add, kids can't sleep. That's not true. It's actually not true. I've lived it. But it has to be a lot of work and a lot of foundations to create the situations for them to be able to sleep. Because kiddos with fast brains need sleep.
Donna Moala [00:05:37]:
So that sort of combo of lived experience, we've all got add giving hope to everyone to not be frightened, just be knowledgeable with it. And that's where I'm at with sleep and parenting and all combined, so. And my add, which we could talk about forever, but yes, try and understand that.
Sharon Collon [00:05:56]:
Okay? I want to start off there if that's okay with you because I've got so many questions. So tell us a little bit about, you know, how you felt. How did you go through the diagnostic process? Yeah. What was the journey like for you?
Donna Moala [00:06:10]:
It was really interesting because I did it slowly, watching and supporting my eldest. And then I just did a lot of research about it. And then what it actually did, when I talk about it, it gives me like a is I was a highly functioning add anxious person, meaning I kept it all in my brain. And if people are listening to this, who've got add? That's what happens. It's actually when people don't have neurodiverse brains, their brains aren't like that. So I just thought I was dumb. I thought all of these things negatively about myself, but I would portray like I wasn't very confident, you know, all that sort of stuff, and just worked extra hard. And there was so many things on reflection that made me feel, like I said, not smart, that now I go, oh, that makes sense.
Donna Moala [00:07:00]:
So like for example, this is a beauty, is I did high level piano my whole life to year twelve. So instead of doing what was called te, I tried out for the conservaton of music. So I was practicing three to 4 hours a day for a lot of high school and I could never memorize a piece. Now that's not all add, because some add twice accepted or whatever, where they actually, their memories are amazing with that stuff. It wasn't. And so now I understand my brain. It gives me, I'm just kinder to myself. I think it's funny.
Donna Moala [00:07:34]:
Now I just like, okay, I'm like an energizer bunny one day, a slob on the couch, the next day, you know, like. Whereas I used to push myself through never resting, which then caused burnout. So for me to answer that question, it was actually huge relief, because, you know, again, I'm sure everybody's heard this. If you look at a lot of famous people and entrepreneurs and awesome people, they have neurodiverse brains, and it is a bit crazy because it's so, oh, my gosh, I've got a new idea and I'm going to do it. And then you're so exhausted, you know, and that's the norm. So I think, yeah, the biggest thing is understanding the other massive part about a parent, understanding that they may have it, because, again, I don't know, again, what the statistics are, but typically there's one parent in the family that will have it 75%.
Sharon Collon [00:08:25]:
It's largely genetic.
Donna Moala [00:08:26]:
It's quite high. And so my husband, their father, is high, high achiever, physio, highly intelligent, great at everything. And so, again, wouldn't have put him on the radar of add, but now that we actually understand it, he's something, but he definitely cannot stay still. He has definitely got the traits of hyperactive. And so, back in the day, not even that long ago, when Eloise was getting diagnosed, I thought that that's all add was, was hyperactive, naughty kids. But it's not. There's a whole lot of range in there. And so that's, I think, sharing the story that don't be frightened.
Donna Moala [00:09:03]:
Like, when people come to me and say, oh, my gosh, my child's just been diagnosed, I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's amazing. You've just got to find out what their passion is and they will be fantastic. Don't be frightened of it. And that's the biggest thing. Knowledge is power.
Sharon Collon [00:09:17]:
That's life out.
Donna Moala [00:09:19]:
And I'm medicated and that's changed. So I've always on and off, been medicated on Lexapro from when I became a mum, really, or just before. And on reflection, that was me burning out. Burning out, burning out, burning out, because I wanted to be perfect and I wanted this to be everything great. So it looks like I've got everything under control, but you can never, can ever. And so then I, you know, felt, you know, really harsh on myself, but so I've always been on and off flexic pro, but the last probably ten years, I've been on it solidly, not coming off that anytime soon until my teenagers have possibly left home. But the interesting thing, when I got my diagnosis last year, a year and a bit, because I knew I had it, but I wanted to get a proper psychiatric assessment, he said to me, this is what's happening. You don't just all of a sudden get diagnosed with add in your older life or adult adds.
Donna Moala [00:10:10]:
He's saying, there's no such thing. You've always had it. And so we overcompensate, which I did my whole life, for this different way that our brains think. So that's why it causes the anxiety and depression, because it's too much to keep up. And so I'm on short acting dexamphetamines. I've tried all different stuff, and it is a game changer, absolute game changer. And it might not be for everybody, you know, like, my middle child hates it and is literally refusing it, and that's totally fine. But my eldest is in uni and wants to be in uni and knows that it works.
Donna Moala [00:10:45]:
And so that's the journey I'm on. Like, I'm not forcing my child to do it if they don't want to, but I know that it just gets rid of the noise. Like, it's so crazy. And so, yeah, I'm very happily medicated.
Sharon Collon [00:11:01]:
That is such a lovely thing to let people know because I think people have a lot of concerns about medication. Yeah. And so it's really great to hear a positive experience as well, and, you know.
Donna Moala [00:11:12]:
Absolutely. And the thing is, with that, let's take a step back, too. I'm talking with such positivity now, but we've been through hell and back with our kids mental health and stuff, so that's another whole story. But this has not been an easy road. You know, I want to talk about hope and share my stories for when. If people are in a really difficult situation and feel like there's no hope, because it's really challenging and no one else understands, just reach out for more help, like, you will get there. But when I we with Eloise, when she first went to take that first medication, so none of us had been medicated other than my lexapro, and she didn't want to. And I was like, I think it's going to be good for you.
Donna Moala [00:11:51]:
Like, I don't really know. Like, I sort of had to jump off that cliff and so I was frightened of it before. But like I said, the interesting stuff is my eldest has just got into uni and loving it and needs it, and she can feel it. My middle just wants to be a hairdresser. And I'm like, not even just. That's the wrong word. Wants to be in beauty or hairdressing. I'm like, great.
Donna Moala [00:12:14]:
That's great. Don't take your medication, you know?
Sharon Collon [00:12:17]:
Yeah. And it's so, it's so individual. And that's the whole thing that you're empowering your kids to have choice, which I think is great. It's great. So something you said a little bit before was talking about what we see in something. I work with people a lot in coaching is that boom or bust cycle. And you described as burnout there. So you talked about masking going too hard, trying to, with that perfectionist tendencies, which we see a lot in high achieving, especially women, I think might just be because I work with a lot of women.
Donna Moala [00:12:50]:
Yes. So in your, in your statistics.
Sharon Collon [00:12:53]:
Yes. So we see this, like, crest of the wave, right, where we go up and we're doing all right. We're doing all right. We're getting everything out. And then it crashes. Like the wave breaks and then it goes up and goes up, and then we see the crest. And so one of the trickier things that, that we work with people on is recognizing when they're getting to the crest of the way, like, we're getting to the burnout cycle where we're going to waves, going to crash. Do you think now looking back at those burnout cycles, were you able to see them coming or did they always surprise you?
Donna Moala [00:13:25]:
Oh, definitely. I feel so sorry for old Donna. Like, I lived on cortisol all the time. Like, my body was just pinging with cortisol because. And I get sick all the time. And on reflection, absolutely. But, you know, the biggest thing, again, it's not just the medication. I have had life coaching.
Donna Moala [00:13:44]:
I've been to psychologists. Whenever I'm feeling that things are unraveling, I will get support. Like, I am big on support. You can't do it by yourself. You just can't. People don't understand. It's very lonely in our heads. And so now, so I'm 49, so it's really only just probably been in the last few years because, you know, it's parenting teenagers and sort of figuring that out.
Donna Moala [00:14:08]:
Is this going to sound really boring? But once you start feeling that pressure, you got to stop. You've got to start saying no. You've got to rest more. And that's what's hard when you're an add person. I think we're so hard on ourselves to lay down. And that's just lazy because we've been told things our whole life where now I had to have a life. Coach me to go, Donna, you're tired. Go and have a go.
Donna Moala [00:14:36]:
And I'm like, really have a sleep in the day. So it's like, actually accepting that that's how we work. Like, instead of, like, burnout, whatever. It's like, yep. I'm feeling the pressure. I just. I stopped taking clients. I don't see people for a while, but not for a while.
Donna Moala [00:14:50]:
Not. Not negatively. Like, I'm not seeing anyone. Just, I need to sleep. I need to rest. I need to go put my feet in the grass and just go back to being grounded as that's moving up. So I used to go and then crash, and then it would take me weeks to get back up to here. And so that doesn't happen anymore.
Donna Moala [00:15:08]:
I have stress. I've learned and got the tools how to deal with stress because we are super sensitive to that stuff, too. And it's changed the children's dynamic. Like, the whole dynamic of the family has been me being able to regulate that better, for sure.
Sharon Collon [00:15:25]:
Interesting. Okay, so now I wanted to ask you about your work because I know that you are a pediatric sleep specialist. You go in and you help families that their kids can't sleep. And we know that sleep is a contentious topic for all our community. So we've got medication side effects, like not being able to sleep. We've got, like, kids, like, my kids, who are like, hey, how about it, you know, 09:00 at night when you're putting me down to sleep, I'll now discuss all the meaning of life with you. You know, so there's lots of stalling tactics, and then there's also, like, just people are exhausted. Like, the parents are exhausted, so they don't have the capacity to be, you know, Mother Teresa at that time.
Sharon Collon [00:16:07]:
So it's kind of a vulnerable time for parents. So can you give any, like, firstly, I'd love to explain a little bit about, more about what you actually do for people, and then we can go into it from there.
Donna Moala [00:16:18]:
Well, you know, I could talk about this forever because my passion is sleep, and it comes from lived experience of anxiety, my children, and that they're a perfect example of add kids that could sleep and can sleep because I've supported them to master that. So when we're in a situation now and it's really quickly evolving, like, I continually changing my approach because we parent different, we're busier. It's not anyone's fault. It's just life. Our kids have to fit in to what we want more because we've got to go to work, they've got to go to daycare. They don't want to go to daycare. Like there's a whole lot of stuff there. Then parents feel guilty, then the kids start misbehaving because that's how they get the attention.
Donna Moala [00:16:56]:
So there's all of this stuff going on now if you've got a label of additive, very easy to go. That's just. They're just not regulating because they've got add.
Sharon Collon [00:17:03]:
Right.
Donna Moala [00:17:04]:
I would take that off the. I would typically not take it off the table, but when it comes to sleep, kind of take it off the table and look more of the biological part of what humans can do now when and what we're biologically made to do now. When you've got an add child that's medicated, it is tough for sure because my kids didn't get medicated too much later, but. But still we were very careful of when they stopped it and you can see the impact of the sleep if they had the medication too late. So it's definitely working out that because if you're going to have an extra dose of short acting when they come home from school, very hard for them to go to sleep, right, but that often what happens with the crash when they come home from school, doctors say have that one to get them through, which then impacts the sleep for sure. But you've got to work with that for sure. But when it comes to sleep, all that you've just said then is just typically normal anyway, so what we do in our busy, crazy lives is like, we've got to try and be one step forward, one step ahead. Meaning when our kiddos are going to go to sleep, it is the time that they will start thinking and then they want to talk to you, right? So then if you know that that's going to happen, then you try and bring bedtime earlier, like 7730, and sit with them and you tell them a bit about your day.
Donna Moala [00:18:17]:
So it's basically what I do with families. I only work one on one because of this reason, because everything's so diverse and so different these days. Our babies are different. I think they've got like a 6th sense. It's crazy. But if we look at sleep, like if they weren't walking by the time they were two, you'd go to a physio that, you know, sleep's the same. My view and my passion and this is all science based for the last 50 years is we support our babies to master the skill of sleep. So, you know, with parenting and, again, exhausting.
Donna Moala [00:18:50]:
You've got three kids with add or whatever, and you're exhausted. You've got nothing at the end of the day. End of the day. So you've got to sit down with that and just think, okay, this is really, like, make sleep a priority and try and figure out your bedtime routines, winding down and stuff like that, and setting a nice, firm, nurturing boundary. Everything's fixable. Like, very. Not very often have I been able to support families to get babies to sleep or kids to sleep. I work with kids up to seven years of age, and what I'm finding now is our kids had anxiety, and that was a little bit rarer.
Donna Moala [00:19:24]:
Now all kids have feel like they've got some kind of. Because their little brains should have just been growing up on a farm and, you know, playing with dogs and blah, blah, blah. But they're made to go to school. They've got iPads in year two, and their brains are just completely frazzled. Even if it's not neurodiverse, then add in a neurodiverse brain, they're exhausted all the time. So you think about. I think myself. About myself when I have to think a lot, a lot, a lot.
Donna Moala [00:19:51]:
I'm exhausted. Right. So when I'm using my brain a lot, they're doing that as young kids because they're expected to do so much in school. And when I grew up, I don't even know if my parents knew what we were learning. But our day and age now, as parents, we have this fear that they've got to be good at this, and they've got to be good at that. And they need to do the homework, and they need to be really good at maths. Take it off the table. Like, just really connect with your child.
Donna Moala [00:20:16]:
And the more you connect with them, with their personality, you'll see things change and they'll be calmer. And, yeah, it's all about nurturing connection and stuff around sleep as well.
Sharon Collon [00:20:26]:
But, yeah, I love that you said sleep as a skill. So, like, just, like we teach our kids, we help support them how to walk, we have to teach them the right way to get to sleep. Right.
Donna Moala [00:20:37]:
Support them and nurture them to learn the skill. Because there's so much B's out there around sleep training. And I know it's a really negative situation because there's so many unregulated, flooded. It's a flooded, unregulated industry and a lot of people still doing cried out and stuff. I don't do any of that. It's about connection and nurturing and supporting and regulating our emotions so they can learn how to regulate. And sleep is like a miracle. You know, a well rested add kid is much better the next day, you know, be able to regulate a bit better.
Donna Moala [00:21:07]:
So it's super important. And if people are listening and they're having troubles and their kids are up to seven years of age, know that there's an answer. Know that there is something where we can support them to learn to sleep well.
Sharon Collon [00:21:18]:
Okay, so I wanted to have a chat to you now about sleep studies because, like, so you would come across this in your industry, of course, where we've got kids that have braising issues, tongue ties, all sorts of reflux, all sorts of things going on. What point should people consider getting a sleep study done in?
Donna Moala [00:21:38]:
So again, I've been doing this for over seven years and helped thousands and thousands of families. I think one, I've got one person to do a sleep study, meaning, yeah, which is crazy. So all of those things. Reflux. I can help with reflux. For example, I could help with refluxing babies if the reflux is under control, meaning probably medication. And the parent can see that bub is in pain anymore, they can master the skill of sleep. I've helped lots of families that are going to an ENT because they've got big tonsils and adenoids.
Donna Moala [00:22:06]:
I can still work with them. Mouth breathers. I can still work with them. Really? What would happen to get a sleep study is that I would have worked intensely for a month with my families and not got the progress. So it's very rare to need a sleep study. I mean, unless they're, you can see that they're stopping breathing, you know, like that sort of thing. Ent sleep study, for sure.
Sharon Collon [00:22:34]:
Okay, so thinking about, you know, how parents present to you at this, like, you know, so thinking about, like, older kids now, because I think a lot of our listeners perhaps have passed the newborn bit, and we're looking at slightly older kids. What. How are parents contacting you and what are they presenting? What about, what are the things that they're saying?
Donna Moala [00:22:58]:
Yeah, it's kind of same. Same, but different, but just wrapped in a different package. So basically, I offer a free 15 minutes chat, which I love doing because it just gives people a little bit of food for thought. You know, it's not a sales call. It's just like, there's so much noise out there. It's like, okay, tell me about it. So my first question is always, yeah, is anything medically diagnosed? Your personality of the child, all that sort of stuff. So pretty quickly I can pick up what the child's like.
Donna Moala [00:23:27]:
I had a family that I just finished with a four year old. This is a really good example. The parents were exhausted, never slept, hyper anxious child up all night, comes in their room screaming, and they were just at the end, and they're like, I don't think it's going to work, but, you know, we're exhausted. And in my mind, I'm thinking maybe it won't. But, you know, by setting up these boundaries and foundations with love and nurture, not only was it about their sleep, but I'm a conscious parenting coach as well. That's my new certification. And it's about incredible. It's connection with your children and being conscious and aware of what's happening as a parent.
Donna Moala [00:24:02]:
And it all went so not only did they think he had anxiety, they actually thought he could be diagnosed. They said, you know, their cousins got add and autism, and I said, okay, you know, maybe. And so I ask all of these questions in 15 minutes. And so it's always the same thing, and it always feels like the same thing as parents are feeling really lost and they just don't know where to go. They feel like they should know because there's so much information out there. But I'm like, I'm a specialist. Like, if you had problems with breastfeeding, you'd go to a lactation consultant. Like, I'm a specialist in sleep, so don't feel like you should, should or could do it, even.
Donna Moala [00:24:39]:
But that's my. My go to is like, health. What they feel, the personality of the baby is what's going on with them, and then give them that hope of what we can do, which is supporting them to be able to master that skill of sleep.
Sharon Collon [00:24:53]:
And do you think a lot of it is actually, you know, helping the parents manage their emotions?
Donna Moala [00:24:59]:
Probably 99.9%, but that's okay because that was me. And again, this conscious parenting that I'm certified in, it's not to make parents feel guilty at all. It's actually just being aware of our triggers and whys and wounds and, you know, how to deal with these things. Because where I was with our kids a couple of years ago, and they suffered with severe mental health, I don't. I'm not blaming myself. I've had to go through a little bit of guilt process, but I couldn't regulate. I was so stressed. I was so fearful that they were going to be, you know, prostitutes and drug dealers.
Donna Moala [00:25:32]:
Really. That's just.
Sharon Collon [00:25:33]:
I love it how everyone goes to that.
Donna Moala [00:25:36]:
Why do we go to that? But, you know, and that's what I want to share and why I wanted to get certified in it to share with parents is, like, the more we can figure ourselves out. And, like, something happened today with one of my daughters that she's actually been my teacher, the one that's made me want to do the conscious parenting. And the old me would have been like, oh, no, we're stress, stress, stress. Late, late. Because I couldn't regulate. But this morning, she got up late. She was really distressed. And I just really calmly said, it's all right, darl.
Donna Moala [00:26:06]:
You know, like, stuff that I thought I should have been doing before but couldn't because I wasn't regulated. And the whole morning was so much different, and we got connected and stuff. So in a roundabout way, I'm trying to explain is that it is supporting parents to be empowered to be the best they can, because it's a bloody hard. It's hard. And having neurodiverse one child or three children is harder, and we can't pretend that it's not. So we have to parent harder, not harder, like, with control harder, as in connection. And, like, I'm not getting anything back. She just swore at me, but I'm gonna say, please don't speak to me like that, and then deal.
Donna Moala [00:26:43]:
You know, like, rather than don't speak to me like that. Disrespectful. Because that's what we were brought traditionally. Like, I was a good girl because I had to be. Whereas now these kids are like, no, I'm not doing what you say. And then the more you say no, then they say no louder. So it's like, okay, how do we adjust that?
Sharon Collon [00:27:01]:
So I have to share a story. So all my boys have been refluxes. And when I had my third, I was so tired because he was such a terrible sleeper. They were all terrible sleepers. It was, like, just years of just no sleeping. So I was so tired. And I have seen a sleep consultant for, I think, pretty much every single one of my kids just to get a fresh approach on it, because I'm so tired. You start to get, like, question all your judgment about everything.
Sharon Collon [00:27:30]:
And the third child, I was, like, hallucinating. I was so tired. Like, I was. Couldn't sleep. Couldn't sleep during the day. I had little ones at home, and I was starting to see, like dark shadows coming out of corners and stuff. Like it was torture. And anyway, I ended up saying to my husband, I was like, something, something's going to happen here because my husband drives the truck, so he can't, like, he wasn't going to do nighttime because otherwise people were going to, he was going to have an accident.
Sharon Collon [00:27:54]:
And so then I was like, okay, something has to change. And we got in a night nurse for one night and I just took a sleeping tablet and knocked me out. And that one night of getting sleep changed everything because I was able to get a night's sleep. And then I had her number if I needed to call her for more nights. And there was so much, and it changed my whole perception from I can't take it, I can't do this, I can't do this to, I can do this. I've got to get out of jail card that I could swing anytime I wanted, right? Didn't need to swing it all that much, but I just needed to have that night of catch up sleep. Like, it was all mindset. It was all my mind.
Sharon Collon [00:28:33]:
And then I found the baby easier. We changed our relationship like we were. It was just. Sleep is so important.
Donna Moala [00:28:39]:
It is so important. And people forget that. The thing is, we're also, and again, I'm not being negative here because we're all like it. We're martyrs. Us moms is like, you know, why don't we get the help? Or why don't we get a night nursing? Like, why do we do it? Like, I never used to ask. The only time I've ever asked for help is when a couple of years ago with the teen at one of the teenagers, because it was so tough. I've never, like, not that people didn't help me, but I mean, I desperate. I need your help.
Donna Moala [00:29:05]:
And because it's like a sign of weakness. I thought it was a sign of weakness, which was stupid. But this is the passion that I have around sleep. What I'm finding is, and I have got friends that are early childhood teachers and sensational, like, in their mid fifties. And the children have changed. There are way more diagnosable issues, there are way more behavioral issues, and the parents don't know what to do. And so it's like just getting it can, you know, we just need to have the tools to be able to do it. But the thing is, people, parents are exhausted and they're having to go to work even if they don't want to.
Donna Moala [00:29:37]:
And if you get sleep, it changes everything. And you can get sleep. That's the thing is, like, people don't know like, that. I, a lot of people don't know I exist, but it's like, this is doable. This is. I had sick kids. I had add kids, and they are the best sleepers. Like, they nap all the time now.
Donna Moala [00:29:55]:
I'm like, go have a nap. Come on. That's excellent because it's a skill that.
Sharon Collon [00:29:59]:
They'Ve been taught, right? So what are you, what would you say to a parent? Like, perhaps they've got kids that just, like, cannot. They cannot get them to sleep, right? Or they're waking up or they're co sleeping, but perhaps, like, it's okay if the parents are okay with it, but if it's not working, because I co slept with my children for, like, a night, and it was the most awful night's sleep I've ever had because they do not stop moving.
Donna Moala [00:30:22]:
No, that's wrong.
Sharon Collon [00:30:25]:
It's too much. But tell me, what would you say, like, what's some tips that you can give them to help them where they're at now?
Donna Moala [00:30:35]:
Reach out for a 15 minutes chat. I can run you through that, of course, and doing the one on one. But the biggest thing is, again, they're also different challenges. But let's just take, for example, you've got older kiddos that suffer from a bit of anxiety, which they may have been diagnosed with add. So the anxiety is just an overthinking brain. So we've got to look at all of that and instead of going, just get over it, or I'm sure parents, I'm not having a go if they do and everyone's exhausted, it's like, you try not to feed into the fear. You've got to kind of keep saying, it's okay, I'm here kind of thing. Like, I don't know how to summarize that because what happens and what I did is, like, rush, rush, rush, rush.
Donna Moala [00:31:16]:
I was a stay at home mom and I was burnt out, so God knows if I had to work. But, like, that high pressured stuff for whingy, whiny kids that have come home from school, they don't want to eat their dinner, they're fighting, you know, like, this stuff happens. It's like trying to take that step back if that happens and you've got a little window to be kind to yourself. Like I said, go and hug a tree. Go do some box breathing. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but that's what saved me. Like, in chaos, I'd be like, I'm going to be coming back. And they're like, where are you going? Or not even, you know.
Donna Moala [00:31:47]:
And then I'd go and box, breathe, too. I could regulate, come back out. So get through that chaos. But when it comes to bedtime, I don't know how many children you've got or what situation it is that you've got another caregiver or whatever. You've got to try and figure out time to have that one on one with the child. I know if you've got three. My husband was at home at night. I had to figure it out.
Donna Moala [00:32:06]:
But I'm just saying connection before correction. So think that in your head. Oh, they're driving me insane. Okay. But they're feeling disconnected. Try to be connected, you know, because. And connection before correction. But super strong boundaries don't give in to, you know.
Donna Moala [00:32:23]:
So bedtime is bedtime at a certain age, certain time, right. So you've got your routine that you might have a book in the bed with that child. And they know the routine. So very clear on routine, because add kids work very well with secure boundaries. They know what's coming next. If they don't know what's coming next, that's where their anxiety gets worse. Have that individual time, if you can, and then you need to spend that five or ten minutes in. In their room with them and you.
Donna Moala [00:32:47]:
I wouldn't probably lay in bed with them. I'd probably sit on a chair next to them. And you might talk about your days to get it going and. But don't give in to any requests and demands. So what happens, for example, they might ask for water, or they've got a cut on their thumb and all the million things. Then the next night, you give them a drink of water, you put a band aid on their thumb, and so you stay ahead of whatever they're asking. So when they say, I need a drink of water, instead of saying no, you just say, oh, you just had some, darling. You have some of the morning.
Donna Moala [00:33:15]:
So it's like keeping really strong, loving boundaries, not giving in to any requests and demands. Keep the boundaries, and they should, over a week or two, get used to that, that news. So it's like we just get so exhausted and want things to. I mean, I used to read my book really fast because I wanted to get out of the room, you know, for the. But it's like, slow down, you know, give them that extra bit of time. It doesn't have to be, you know, half an hour, but enough. And then the boundary is strong. No, darling, just try not to use the word no around the sleep as well.
Donna Moala [00:33:47]:
So it's like, instead of saying, no, darling, say, mummy, we'll be back in a minute. You know, mummy's going to the toilet. Like, just. Just keeping strong boundaries around it and giving it at least two weeks of the new foundations to see the changes. Nighttime wakings is frustrating and hard as well, but it's the same sort of thing. You've got to bring them back to bed and sort of keep the boundary so strong. Supporting nurturing boundaries would be my best thing.
Sharon Collon [00:34:14]:
So can we talk quickly about night terrors? Because this is something that's big in our community. Can you explain to our beautiful listeners what a night terror is? Where do they come from? What should we do?
Donna Moala [00:34:26]:
Okay, so night terrors would be something that if that you're finding them consistently happening, that would be a reason to go to a sleep study, for sure. Now, what I'm finding over the last few years, night terrors are quite rare. So I think people feel like they're night terrors. Maybe they are go to a sleep study place. Night terrors are. You cannot wake them. They are hysterical. And sometimes waking them makes it worse or whatever.
Donna Moala [00:34:51]:
So that's a night terror. Nightmare is they're unhappy, but they can sort of be woken. The biggest thing around this is what are they watching? How much are they watching during the day? I'm not anti anything, but remembering. There's a lot more on phones and iPads and things that they can see. Bringing it really back to just tv. Why do they need an iPad? Why? You know, like, my biggest thing with all the disaster stuff that happens within our family, with our children, is we were the beginnings of really, the smartphones. So Eloise, being 18, it only just sort of instagram and stuff was just getting busier. Molly, it has destroyed her and we're coming out of that.
Donna Moala [00:35:31]:
But they don't need it. They don't need it until, like, if you can hold it off to 13, would be great. So really make the conscious decision of no phone, no iPads. Like tv, good old tv. Like that does not mess up the brain as much as what they're seeing on iPads and phones. And I know when you're exhausted and it's the only way to have a break, I get it. Use the tv. Because what's happening is they're overactive brains, and so they are.
Donna Moala [00:35:59]:
At night, when we go to sleep, our neural pathways are being developed. So we're learning, learning, learning, and everything's getting taken out of your brain that's not going to stay in there. So when you're getting overstimulated during the day, that can contribute to night terrors. Too hot. If they're too hot, that's a big thing as well. Don't overheat. And also food. Too sugary, too.
Donna Moala [00:36:21]:
Whatever. I got to sort of look at the foods. So, again, if anyone feels like that's happening, everyone's more than welcome to book in for a call because I can run through all of that.
Sharon Collon [00:36:30]:
So when it's actually happening, what do you recommend we do?
Donna Moala [00:36:35]:
I would still go in.
Sharon Collon [00:36:36]:
Yeah, yeah, go in. But you're not trying to wake them, you're just trying to guide them back into bed.
Donna Moala [00:36:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that might just be there for them, you know, in case they start walking or whatever, you know, or, you know, I'd still just. Just be calm and just, you know, it's okay, mom's here. Or it's only a nightmare. Like, have that. Because in deep back in their conscious or subconscious, they hopefully can start hearing your calming voice.
Sharon Collon [00:37:02]:
Okay. Awesome. So thank you so much for today because you have shared so much gold with us. Can you tell our beautiful listeners where to find you?
Donna Moala [00:37:11]:
Oh, yes, I can. So my business is called bub to sleep. I feel like I need to change that name because it's not just about bubs, but I also think our children are our bubs, aren't they? But bub to sleep. So all your platforms, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, on any of those platforms, you can book in for that free 15 minutes chat. It's absolutely not a sales conversation. I love giving people food for thought and some hope. And, yeah, I do one on ones, which I love. But I also have a member, a parenting collective membership where people have daily access to me for parenting and sleep conversations.
Donna Moala [00:37:48]:
It's very nurturing, safe space. We share lots of stories in there. That's about it. And my podcast. We've got a podcast. So, yes, lots of things going on around the sleep and parenting world.
Sharon Collon [00:37:58]:
Amazing. Thank you so much, Donna.
Donna Moala [00:38:01]:
It's been. No worries. Thank you so much. I love sharing my stories to you. So hopefully I've been able to, yes, share some wisdom and for people, for hope.
Sharon Collon [00:38:09]:
Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the ADHD Families podcast. If you loved it, please share it on your socials. I want this to start a conversation about ADHD. If you want to make this mum do a little happy dance, please leave a review on iTunes. If you would like to know more about what we do. Check out thefunctionalfamily.com. i truly hope that you enjoyed this podcast and you use it to create a wonderful, effective, joyful life with your beautiful chips.
